Lowland League General Discussion

[Dev]

SPFL TRUST TROPHY:  1st Round losers Prize money: £5,000

SPFL League Cup: First round group stage: Fifth position - £30,000

......... so any non-SPFL club invited to play in both competitions pockets a minimum £35,000. Why aren't such clubs selected entirely using merit as the basis for their selection?

It is, of course, (and this is put forward merely in jest!) entirely unfair to suggest that reasons for the selection of clubs against merit may include:

[a] The Pyramid isn't working properly as yet so, inconveniently, the best non "B" teams don't finish in the top positions and may even be sliding downwards to the trap-door of relegation to the W0S/EoS/SoS, which, of course, must not be allowed as it goes against History.

The ex SPFL clubs need extra support in order to retain their current status so some extra funds will help with that - although, eventually, even that may not be enough for them to avoid the Drop out of the LL in particular.

[c] The two feeder Leagues to SPFL2 are cr.p so only ex-SPFL clubs merit recognition and financial support via e.g. the Trust Trophy and, more helpfully, the League Cup.

[d] The SPFL considers that there are "special" ties with ex-SPFL. These "special ties" could conceivably come in handy in the future on those rare occasions when the SPFL may like to pass on "favourable advice" to the LL and HL - whilst recognizing that these Leagues are entirely independent and rely upon their own clubs to make important decisions upon matters such as:

(i) regarding the non-opening up of automatic promotion and relegation between them and SPFL2,

(ii) the inclusion of SPFL "B" teams in their Leagues and

(iii) adjustments to the Club Licencing requirements in order to keep non ex-SPFL clubs away from the SPFL.

Amen.

[PossilYM]

4 hours ago, Dev said:

SPFL TRUST TROPHY:  1st Round losers Prize money: £5,000

SPFL League Cup: First round group stage: Fifth position - £30,000

......... so any non-SPFL club invited to play in both competitions pockets a minimum £35,000. Why aren't such clubs selected entirely using merit as the basis for their selection?

It is, of course, (and this is put forward merely in jest!) entirely unfair to suggest that reasons for the selection of clubs against merit may include:

[a] The Pyramid isn't working properly as yet so, inconveniently, the best non "B" teams don't finish in the top positions and may even be sliding downwards to the trap-door of relegation to the W0S/EoS/SoS, which, of course, must not be allowed as it goes against History.

The ex SPFL clubs need extra support in order to retain their current status so some extra funds will help with that - although, eventually, even that may not be enough for them to avoid the Drop out of the LL in particular.

[c] The two feeder Leagues to SPFL2 are cr.p so only ex-SPFL clubs merit recognition and financial support via e.g. the Trust Trophy and, more helpfully, the League Cup.

[d] The SPFL considers that there are "special" ties with ex-SPFL. These "special ties" could conceivably come in handy in the future on those rare occasions when the SPFL may like to pass on "favourable advice" to the LL and HL - whilst recognizing that these Leagues are entirely independent and rely upon their own clubs to make important decisions upon matters such as:

(i) regarding the non-opening up of automatic promotion and relegation between them and SPFL2,

(ii) the inclusion of SPFL "B" teams in their Leagues and

(iii) adjustments to the Club Licencing requirements in order to keep non ex-SPFL clubs away from the SPFL.

Amen.

The scary part of all that is that it's true.

[Redcar]

3 hours ago, PossilYM said:

The scary part of all that is that it's true.

No it isn't. Much of it is absolute bollocks. 

[morrison]

On 27/05/2024 at 14:48, Basile Boli said:

Hilarious that the top 6 in the HL are selected but it’s a random mishmash from the LL. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that they are all ex-SPFL sides.

The only reason it hasn't happened in the HL is because Brechin finished highly enough to 'qualify' anyway. That much seems obvious.

On 28/05/2024 at 08:05, Cowdenleith said:

I can only speak for myself, and not the support as a whole, but when this unexpected news came out yesterday with no context for the decision, it was entirely predictable how it would go on here.

It was predictable because it's wrong, as you acknowledge yourself.  

On 28/05/2024 at 12:13, stanley said:

It is not the fault of the fans of the four former SPFL for the cup decision nor can they really do anything about it 

Disagree. Look at the fan reaction from Caley's announced move to Kelty. Or Raith Rovers about Goodwillie. I emailed County's SLO after Mackay was appointed our manager. They're all different things, yes, but fans have a voice if they care to use it.

Clearly a lot don't and that's their perogative...

On 28/05/2024 at 17:46, Cowdenleith said:

apologising for pushing back on the suggestion I should contact Cowdenbeath and ask them to withdraw, kind of thought that was a bit of a humorous suggestion, but maybe it wasn’t.

...Case in point.

[Clyde01]

To be fair you can’t blame the former SPFL sides for not looking a gift horse in the mouth.

The blame here lies entirely with whoever thought it was a good idea to ignore sporting integrity and invite in sides from way down the table.

As much as the irony of hearing Cumbernauld colts bleating about sporting integrity is hard to stomach I do feel sorry for Linlithgow and Tranent. Surely it’s not too late for common sense to prevail here! (I won’t hold my breath). 

[The Minertaur]

9 minutes ago, morrison said:

The only reason it hasn't happened in the HL is because Brechin finished highly enough to 'qualify' anyway. That much seems obvious.

It was predictable because it's wrong, as you acknowledge yourself.  

Disagree. Look at the fan reaction from Caley's announced move to Kelty. Or Raith Rovers about Goodwillie. I emailed County's SLO after Mackay was appointed our manager. They're all different things, yes, but fans have a voice if they care to use it.

Clearly a lot don't and that's their perogative...

...Case in point.

 Seen it all now.  Raith Rovers fans complaining about signing somebody found guilty of rape in civil court, Caley Thistle moving their training facilities to the other end of the country, Ross County appointing somebody who was accused of racism in the past......and Cowdenbeath being offered a place in a cup tournament without knowing what other teams had been invited?  The key difference is that this is a positive thing happening to us and it would be absolutely moronic of the club to turn this offer down.

The club knew nothing about it until the SPFL announced it.  Get complaining to the SPFL. If the fans can have a say then get on Twitter, Facebook, email and go after the SPFL.  They clearly can't organise a piss up nevermind a decent cup competition but the complete focus on us Lowland League teams has been ridiculous. 

[craigkillie]

3 hours ago, The Minertaur said:

The club knew nothing about it until the SPFL announced it.  Get complaining to the SPFL. If the fans can have a say then get on Twitter, Facebook, email and go after the SPFL.  They clearly can't organise a piss up nevermind a decent cup competition but the complete focus on us Lowland League teams has been ridiculous. 

They still accepted it, yes?

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, Clyde01 said:

To be fair you can’t blame the former SPFL sides for not looking a gift horse in the mouth.

The blame here lies entirely with whoever thought it was a good idea to ignore sporting integrity and invite in sides from way down the table.

As much as the irony of hearing Cumbernauld colts bleating about sporting integrity is hard to stomach I do feel sorry for Linlithgow and Tranent. Surely it’s not too late for common sense to prevail here! (I won’t hold my breath). 

Of course you can. That's what integrity means.

Those four clubs are screwing over other teams in their league, accepting a meaningful financial benefit they didn't earn on the pitch, and preventing those who did earn it on the pitch from getting it instead.

If their fans are fine with their clubs taking this money then they don't get to complain about the OF sucking up resources, or clubs invited to the European Super League, or FIFA selling world cups, or Lowland League clubs voting to admit B teams, because they're accepting the principle that it's alright to do things that are in your own interests regardless of fairness or the consequences for others.

As for clubs like Cumbernauld Colts, you've obviously got a point. But these SPFL Trust Trophy invitations are worse than the inclusion of the B teams in the Lowland League. The inclusion of those teams isn't denying any other clubs from getting anything - if they weren't in the Lowland League it would have 16 clubs, same as the maximum in every division in tiers 6 to 10 below them.

The inclusion of the B teams in the Lowland League is awful, I hate it, but this bullsh*t we're talking about now is even worse and the four ex-SPFL sides have it in their gift to stop it.

[Burnieman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c511gegevrqo

[welshbairn]

12 hours ago, The Minertaur said:

The club knew nothing about it until the SPFL announced it. 

Are you sure about that?

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

On 29/05/2024 at 08:34, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Its shite when a group of clubs refuses to listen to reason re participation and opening up competition and then does something incredibly cringy like opening up their competitions to B teams acting entirely in self interest rather than the spirit of fair competition isnt it lads?

You are totally right. Sadly two of the clubs affected also voted against B teams. Is it a coincidence?

I’m confident that B teams will soon be voted out. Edinburgh Uni being replace by Broxburn swings the vote.

Next up has to be at least 2 teams down from the LL. I’d like to see 3 teams down with the champions from West and East up automatically and a playoff for 2nd in West and East and Champions of the South for the 3rd promotion place but I can hit dream.

Before anyone asks, the South not being automatically promoted for me is obvious given the score lines in the playoffs. Gretna a shoe-in to go down next year and I don’t expect to see them back anytime soon after that.

Edited May 30 by grinderbrokeyourhearts

[The Minertaur]

33 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Are you sure about that?

Yes.  

[Burnieman]

28 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

You are totally right. Sadly two of the clubs affected also voted against B teams. Is it a coincidence?

I’m confident that B teams will soon be voted out. Edinburgh Uni being replace by Broxburn swings the vote.

Next up has to be at least 2 teams down from the LL. I’d like to see 3 teams down with the champions from West and East up automatically and a playoff for 2nd in West and East and Champions of the South for the 3rd promotion place but I can hit dream.

Before anyone asks, the South not being automatically promoted for me is obvious given the score lines in the playoffs. Gretna a shoe-in to go down next year and I don’t expect to see them back anytime soon after that.

B teams have already been accepted for the next 2 seasons, with an option for a third.

Edited May 30 by Burnieman

[Burnieman]

19 minutes ago, The Minertaur said:

Yes.  

The clubs were informed last Wednesday.  The reps from the LL at the Cup Final on Saturday were only informed at that point.

[To B or not B]

2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The clubs were informed last Wednesday.  The reps from the LL at the Cup Final on Saturday were only informed at that point.

This ^^^^

[Sparticus]

The last lowland league vote to allow b teams for another three years was a complete shocker.

How can anyone propose that and who actually did?

Surely such votes can only be for one season as there will be new member the season after.

Farce.

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Sparticus said:

The last lowland league vote to allow b teams for another three years was a complete shocker.

How can anyone propose that and who actually did?

Surely such votes can only be for one season as there will be new member the season after.

Farce.

Bit like the all or nothing vote on 3 clubs, I'm guessing they said 2+1 or nothing.

Since the current rules are only for a single season the league is probably going to put in a rule amendment

[Dev]

33 minutes ago, Sparticus said:

The last lowland league vote to allow b teams for another three years was a complete shocker.

How can anyone propose that and who actually did?

Surely such votes can only be for one season as there will be new member the season after.

Farce.

 

23 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Bit like the all or nothing vote on 3 clubs, I'm guessing they said 2+1 or nothing.

Since the current rules are only for a single season the league is probably going to put in a rule amendment

If the LL now decide to go back on the three year agreement what could the B team clubs do about it?

[To B or not B]

Just now, Dev said:

 

If the LL now decide to go back on the three year agreement what could the B team clubs do about it?

Any club can propose rule changes at anytime, so in effect the B teams could do nothing if enough teams voted for the new rule.

[Dev]

10 minutes ago, To B or not B said:

Any club can propose rule changes at anytime, so in effect the B teams could do nothing if enough teams voted for the new rule.

I wasn't clear enough. I was meaning what could be done legally. It's difficult to see how the B teams do anything other than show a small definable  financial loss for their clubs during a season in the LL.

My previous post was partly done Tongue in Cheek but it did attempt to put together some of the other posts so maybe it was an attempt at a summary.

It has long been said that the OF are responsible for lots of things - good and not so good. Maybe, if they want something so much they could be approached by the LL to do a trade-off?

If they want B teams in the LL/HL then the cost is the same promotion and relegation method as between  e.g. SPFL1 and SPFL2. There would need to be a play-off firstly between the top clubs from the LL and HL. The winners go into SPFL2 with the losers going into a Play-Off with the 9th placed club in SPFL2. The bottom SPFL club, obviously, going straight down to the LL/HL.

Edited May 30 by Dev
.