Lowland League General Discussion

[cowdenbeath]

1 hour ago, To B or not B said:

I bet you that would change if the bigot brothers were to be offered a permanent place. 

My understanding is they have been told that 16 is the max for permanent members no idea how long the guest club thing will continue for what its worth I would be happy with 18 permanent members who wern't B teams.

[Grandmas Enigma]

2 hours ago, cowdenbeath said:

The SFA will only allow 16 maximum.

Yes, one of many roadblocks to progression. Its not about the lowland league coping - we know it can manage the numbers. Its about all the relevant bodies working together in the right way to enable the best path forward. Unfortunately despite our desires we are miles away from that.

[newcastle broon]

1 hour ago, Cowdenleith said:

Trolled by a Whitehill Welfare fan about crowd levels.

Get yourself over to the Cowden thread and we’ll give you what for.

To be fair, there was a very good crowd from Bo’ness on Saturday. However, as @cowdenbeathsaid our crowds have held up ok, I doubt if the crowds are much smaller than the last couple of years in division 2 (apart from the odd game with big away support like Kelty).  I must do some analysis some time. 

Was nae being arsey and hardly a troll thought it was a LL discussion thread.

Only going on what I was told by somebody at the match. 

Games are won on the park not by the thousands of us experts on the sidelines. 

If a team wi a shite support can sustain it on and off the park then good luck to them, there should nae be a problem. 

Gretna and Ed Uni might be out there depth at minute but they will fall eventually.

That's what the pyramid is about though there should be more slots available for teams to pro/regress.

For the record there were decent crowds at Newtongrange v WW and WW v Arniston recently,maybes leagues should be regionalised at lower levels 

Edited January 15 by newcastle broon

[Burnieman]

2 hours ago, Brazilianlex said:

Your right !

It’s unfortunately the case that the Lowland League needs to do the SFAs job but that’s the facts.

Too many Clubs position is to simply get the B Teams to feck with no alternative plan and don’t allow change to bottom of pyramid until they let us in the SPFL.
Some are trying to find solutions but get voted down at every turn. 
The LL Cup was one option where the competition could have been restructured to let B teams in and get them out the league and some decent prize money to boot but it was also voted down by LL Clubs.

 

Fact is B teams won't go away, so some sort of solution has to be found.  A proper Reserve/U23 league would offer that but there are just not enough clubs prepared to commit to a proper length of season, they won't fund it.  The Conference proposal just showed how out of touch Maxwell/SFA are to this level of football - but don't assume the overall idea has been binned completely.

The LL need to get smart and lever the situation to their long term advantage, and compromises will need to be made along the way.

[vikingTON]

7 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

 

Fact is B teams won't go away, so some sort of solution has to be found.  

That's not a fact at all.

[Burnieman]

Just now, virginton said:

That's not a fact at all.

It is for the next 3 years, and yes an agreeable solution needs to be found long term otherwise the SFA will find a way to force them on the Pyramid whether anyone likes it or not. It nearly happened 6 months ago.

[Brazilianlex]

11 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

 

Fact is B teams won't go away, so some sort of solution has to be found.  A proper Reserve/U23 league would offer that but there are just not enough clubs prepared to commit to a proper length of season, they won't fund it.  The Conference proposal just showed how out of touch Maxwell/SFA are to this level of football - but don't assume the overall idea has been binned completely.

The LL need to get smart and lever the situation to their long term advantage, and compromises will need to be made along the way.

Far too sensible a view for this forum. !

Expect some rants 

[Burnieman]

Just now, Brazilianlex said:

Far too sensible a view for this forum. !

Expect some rants 

B teams should never have been parachuted into the LL, however the inconvenient truth for many is that few clubs in EoS and WoS would vote against accepting a B team into membership.   I recall an EoS meeting where B teams were being discussed, and there was very little objection to them, just that they shouldn't be leapfrogging 200+ clubs.

However that leap has happened and clearly the SFA are very fond of the idea [and the OF will keep chipping away at them no doubt] so there needs to some form of sensible open debate on the long term future. The LL are handily placed to help shape that future, as are EoS and WoS and HL.

[edinabear]

There was some talk on Follow follow fairly recently of a full reserve league being set up again with 2 divisions effectively tier 5 and tier 6 which would feed into League 2. It's all gone quiet though. 

League 2 would be expanded to 18 teams with automatic relegation places

[rockson]

4 hours ago, Burnieman said:

 

Perhaps then the LL need to be a little more clever and offer 2-4 permament places to B teams with the proviso that they can permanently expand to 18-20 clubs, and that the B teams can be relegated to tier 6. 

Also offer up a minimum of two relegation spots to Tier 6 plus a play-off, and push for an auto relegation spot from L2 as part of the deal.  Perhaps the SPFL would go for this if it removed the threat of B teams being promoted.

If there's horse trading to be done, start trading.

The relegated club could quite easily not be in the LL catchment area though.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, edinabear said:

There was some talk on Follow follow fairly recently of a full reserve league being set up again with 2 divisions effectively tier 5 and tier 6 which would feed into League 2. It's all gone quiet though. 

League 2 would be expanded to 18 teams with automatic relegation places

Someone has an active imagination

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 14/01/2024 at 19:22, ekok said:

Hi just one simple comment.  If the teams that formed the original Lowland League had not taken a leap of faith,  most unlikely there would even be a Pyramid.  Yes it has its faults,  including promotion / relegation all the way through. 

To read posters talking about " get rid of the rubbish,  etc " is as offensive as it is uninformed.  Some excellent posts on this thread as well, maybe if more people took a more positive take on where we are, rather than cloud cloud cuckoo land we might actually get an improved set up ,

My view:

The Lowland League since its inception is by far the strongest its ever been in season, 23/24.  Every team has improved from last year and I would hazard a guess and say the same of Edinburgh Uni and Gretna but both teams are weaker than the rest and if relegation does happen to the bottom of the Lowland league I would say its one of those two will be relegated and the following year the other team who survived will go down next if relegation happens in 24/25.   Personally I don't care who was here first or who was last etc.. my view, your strong you stay up, your weak you get relegated, its just simple math.

    The standard again will rise in 24/25 as if the EOSFL champions or the WOSFL champions are promoted either one will be strong and wont be relegation cannon fodder, again, Lowland league teams will try to improve both on and importantly off the pitch, to get things right, with new managers, new ideas, better committees and hopefully all with an objective view to improve their team and the benefactor will be the Lowland league.  The league will become more interesting, bigger crowds, bigger sponsorship and hopefully the Lowland realizing they don't need B teams.   

  Personally, a 18 team league would be excellent for all and I mean without B teams, (well the the same tier 5 level is at 18 teams) and if greater relegation and promotion are added to and from then, this will put the onus on the SPFL2, knowing that they are the only league not having automatic relegation, which the SFA and SPFL will see and if pressure applied to both and in turn could act to put pressure on the SPFL2, yes I know the clubs are the ones who vote for it.       You have the teams Cowdenbeath (10th), East Stirlingshire (16th), Berwick Rangers (13th) and newly relegated from the SPFL 2 , Albion Rovers (15th) and who were all against relegation and think they realize the Lowland isn't as bad as they thought, some have reached their level as the four former SPFL2 team are mid to lower end of the table and I bet you every one of those teams now, in hindsight, would have voted for relegation and promotion to and from SPFL2 giving them a better chance of coming back.  With SPFL2 team relegated and show no signs of immediate return, this shows you how tough the Lowland league is.

In a few years time the Lowland will be very strong and hopefully even more interesting and competitive league.  Obviously the league has problems, in my view, people in charge like Tom Brown who said on 'Official Catchup', both Lowland and Highland leagues need to accept the new 'Tier 5' league is coming and guys like him sound as if they are only interested in themselves and also teams like Civil service strollers who are credited with voting that no relegations should be considered from the Lowland league until SPFL2 open their relegation up at the Lowland league general meeting.  I will say, any team for the next 4 to 6 years who are relegated from the Lowland, I don't see much chance of them coming back if relegated to the EOSFL or WOSFL, so beware.

The pyramid is alive and functioning but most of us know it isn't working the way it should be and is very slow but 10 years time hopefully there's a big shift in the right way.  

Edited January 17 by Bestsinceslicebread

[vikingTON]

On 15/01/2024 at 19:31, Burnieman said:

It is for the next 3 years,

So in year 4 and onwards, you have no factual basis to support that claim. 

Quote

and yes an agreeable solution needs to be found long term otherwise the SFA will find a way to force them on the Pyramid whether anyone likes it or not. It nearly happened 6 months ago.

Well no because the SFA cannot force any organisation within the Pyramid to accept any of their utter shite, back of a fag packet proposals. 

And that is a fact. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

On 15/01/2024 at 19:21, Burnieman said:

 

Fact is B teams won't go away, so some sort of solution has to be found.  A proper Reserve/U23 league would offer that but there are just not enough clubs prepared to commit to a proper length of season, they won't fund it.  The Conference proposal just showed how out of touch Maxwell/SFA are to this level of football - but don't assume the overall idea has been binned completely.

The LL need to get smart and lever the situation to their long term advantage, and compromises will need to be made along the way.

There is a very, very simple solution to the B team situation and it involves the   9 pathetic, joke outfits in this league not parting their arse cheeks at the flash of a couple of grand.

[The Moonster]

On 15/01/2024 at 20:20, edinabear said:

There was some talk on Follow follow...It's all gone quiet now though.

I'm really shocked to hear that clubs up and down the country haven't been listening to what a bunch of sychophantic Rangers fans think. 

[edinabear]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

I'm really shocked to hear that clubs up and down the country haven't been listening to what a bunch of sychophantic Rangers fans think. 

No, this was a former youth coach who said meetings had taken place with the SPFL, LL and HL. You must know fans don't matter.

[the jambo-rocker]

I won't lie and say the B team is arguably benefiting us, but I'm not comfortable with it being to the detriment of the rest of Scottish football. I'd rather we took ourselves out of it tbqh. Maybe that would force Celtic to go anaw and then it's a 'well nobody wants to play anyway' so let's remove it.

I also don't get how the SFA can just say it's 16 teams and that's that for the league. The highland is 18 is it not? It's arbitrary nonsense and the league can be as fucking many as they want if they vote for it. I honestly find it amazing the league haven't pushed back on this.

I hate hoping for relegated teams, but if the Highland league winner were to win this year, and a Clyde /Forfar/East Fife come down that would be just grand from a lowland league perspective as the two teams at bottom could finally be flushed down to their level. 

I also don't like the idea of using spfl2 as an excuse not to have more relegation. Be the example and open it up to follow rather than 'aye what about them'. When is the next chance for a vote on that? Can it just be called?

Edited January 17 by the jambo-rocker

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

25 minutes ago, the jambo-rocker said:

I hate hoping for relegated teams, but if the Highland league winner were to win this year, and a Clyde /Forfar/East Fife come down that would be just grand from a lowland league perspective as the two teams at bottom could finally be flushed down to their level. 

I hope no team is relegated into this sham of a league. Even if they finish bottom and deserve to be relegated they don’t deserve to have to live with the consequences of what a few greedy clubs in the Lowland League voted for. Until it changes I’d happily see every current club fester here with the B teams and if was up to me the Lowland league would be removed from the pyramid until such times.

[morrison]

On 15/01/2024 at 17:11, Brazilianlex said:

Too many Clubs position is to simply get the B Teams to feck with no alternative plan

and don’t allow change to bottom of pyramid until they let us in the SPFL.
 

That's two different conversations, surely? Are you saying it's the same clubs voting against B teams and voting against a change to relegation?

I'd have thought it's mostly different clubs. Voting for more money and no additional relegation would be a frustrating, but understandably self-protecting position to take up, however.

As for "with no alternative plan"... the plan is to have a league filled with clubs who have earned their place in the LL, and who'll turn up with consistent squads. It's not their job to worry about what Celtic and Hearts want to do with their kids.

 

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, edinabear said:

No, this was a former youth coach who said meetings had taken place with the SPFL, LL and HL. You must know fans don't matter.

Uh huh, just like the last time we heard B teams in the league system was a done deal before it was almost unanimously rejected just for the Lowland League to drop their pants take them in.

Rangers, Celtic or any other arsehole Prem team will never be able to railroad a new tier of league football in unless every other club agrees with it. They overwhelmingly don't.