September 2022 Scotland squad

[2426255]

19 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

You could be right.  It's hard to get any up to date information on their squad.  The best source I have is only correct as of the 5th of September, and that still includes Zinchenko who was confirmed out by Arsenal.

The official Ukrainian Football Association website is an easy location for confirmation. Bushchan, Shaparenko¹ and Zinchenko² have all been confirmed as injured by the Ukrainian Football Association, but Stepanenko has not been mentioned there so I think it's just one to watch at the moment. I did see a Ukrainian Twitter account make a post suggesting Stepanenko might have picked up a hamstring injury after Shakhtar played Celtic, but it's twittter so it holds limited value.

1. https://en.uaf.ua/article/46196
2. https://en.uaf.ua/article/46259

[2426255]

10 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

The general point was to illustrate how we perceive our own players. You would have to really look into it to decide who out of the teams is better stocked at centre back. But certainly either way the gap wouldn't be massive.

It'd certainly get pulses racing if we played 2 centre-backs, especially if it allowed Craig Gordon more of an opportunity to be our extra man when building out from the back.

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Numbers guy, once again. I have you on ignore. Its nice that you like me alot, but the feeling isn't reciprocal. I will never engage with you.

[Loominous]

13 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Of course, because someone specific plays in whats considered a better league it doesn't automatically make them a better player than someone specific who doesn't. But in general better players will play in better leagues.

The general point was to illustrate how we perceive our own players. You would have to really look into it to decide who out of the teams is better stocked at centre back. But certainly either way the gap wouldn't be massive.

But yet we couldn't possibly play with 2 centre backs.

Either or both of those Ukrainian players may end up getting a move to a better league. But If a bigger club wanted them now they would have taken them, so at the moment the market has dictated their standard, not me.

On Callum McGregor, yeah tbh if this Ukrainian punter said that to me he would obviously have a point. If Callum McGregor was a top player he would be playing for a top club. I think he could play in the Premiership lower end. But he's not fast enough to make much an impact as an attacking player in that league. If a big English team had wanted him he would have gone.

Fair enough, I can see how you've arrived at that point of view.

I'd just query how persuasive an argument that is constructed around a generalisation about another team is? The detail in the picture is missing if your generalisation is assumed as true. What might work for Ukraine might not work for Scotland.

A stronger argument in my view might look to reference the strengths and weaknesses of the Scotland team with respect to a change to our defensive setup because we understand the detail and context of our own team and it's requirements.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Loominous
Said the same thing twice.

[Captain Saintsible]

McBurnie scores again

More goals than Dykes and Brown combined

 

[2426255]

27 minutes ago, Captain Saintsible said:

McBurnie scores again

More goals than Dykes and Brown combined

 

[No_Problemo]

20 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Of course, because someone specific plays in whats considered a better league it doesn't automatically make them a better player than someone specific who doesn't. But in general better players will play in better leagues.

The general point was to illustrate how we perceive our own players. You would have to really look into it to decide who out of the teams is better stocked at centre back. But certainly either way the gap wouldn't be massive.

But yet we couldn't possibly play with 2 centre backs.

Either or both of those Ukrainian players may end up getting a move to a better league. But If a bigger club wanted them now they would have taken them, so at the moment the market has dictated their standard, not me.

On Callum McGregor, yeah tbh if this Ukrainian punter said that to me he would obviously have a point. If Callum McGregor was a top player he would be playing for a top club. I think he could play in the Premiership lower end. But he's not fast enough to make much an impact as an attacking player in that league. If a big English team had wanted him he would have gone.

McGregor is better than lower end Premiership IMO - I don’t imagine he would be used as a particularly attacking player though. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, No_Problemo said:

McGregor is better than lower end Premiership IMO - I don’t imagine he would be used as a particularly attacking player though. 

Well its all about opinions mate, I dont have any dislike for McGregor or any of our players. I think if a top half premiership team had wanted him he would have went. As he could have doubled or tripled his wages. Footballs to short a career not to be doing that if its on offer.

Tbh I think McGregor best Football for Scotland has been since gilmour came into the team. They work very well together, or It might well be that Gilmour makes him play better. Either way he's never been as consistent previously.

 

[No_Problemo]

2 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Well its all about opinions mate, I dont have any dislike for McGregor or any of our players. I think if a top half premiership team had wanted him he would have went. As he could have doubled or tripled his wages. Footballs to short a career not to be doing that if its on offer.

Tbh I think McGregor best Football for Scotland has been since gilmour came into the team. They work very well together, or It might well be that Gilmour makes him play better. Either way he's never been as consistent previously.

 

 

No necessarily though - play numerous games for a mid table EPL side or win everything and play in Europe with Celtic. Everyone has different ambitions, I would prefer if he went to England, but I can at least see why he might not want to. It isn’t like he will be on a poor wage at Celtic! 

I definitely agree with the second part - also benefits from having actual football players behind and in front of him. 
 

[2426255]

15 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I think if a top half premiership team had wanted him he would have went.

This is provably wrong as Leicester City were a top half EPL team who wanted him and he chose to stay at Celtic. The Ukrainian centre-backs may be in a similar position or maybe issues related to the war with Russia have slowed transfers down or maybe they're Ukrainian equivilants of Grant Hanley and Scott McKenna. Who knows? certainly not you. So the fact you're trying to use that to say Scotland should play a back-4 is a non starter.

15 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

Everyone has different ambitions, I would prefer if he went to England, but I can at least see why he might not want to. It isn’t like he will be on a poor wage at Celtic! 

Spot on, everyone is different. Callum McGregor was linked to Leicester City, he could have signed for them if he so chose. He was linked with Hertha Berlin previously so he's had options and chosen to stay at Celtic. It's just lazy to say he plays in the SPL so he's not that good. @Satoshiwould possibly call it self loathing behaviour. 

Quote

Exactly, I’ve been loving my football, been playing really well, the gaffer’s been brilliant with me and the way we’ve started the season has been unbelievable. To be fair, the English Premier’s probably the best league around, you watch it and the standard’s good and you’d like to test yourself in it but this is a big place to play football too and the European campaign has highlighted that.

It has shown how big we are and how well we’re doing as a group of players. I love this club and it has been very good to me throughout the years, so you’re not looking to move. I was happy with their stance so it was just a case of trying to get it done as quickly as possible and getting on with focusing on the football. There was nothing unsettling about it.

The club made it clear early on they wanted to keep me so I was delighted with that. While it’s nice to get a pat on the back and a compliment from the old manager, it’s not like I was fighting it.

Callum McGregor

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-star-callum-mcgregor-opens-20999125

Edited September 18, 2022 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

On 17/09/2022 at 13:22, BingMcCrosby said:

Numbers guy, once again. I have you on ignore. Its nice that you like me alot, but the feeling isn't reciprocal. I will never engage with you.

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

18 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

 

No necessarily though - play numerous games for a mid table EPL side or win everything and play in Europe with Celtic. Everyone has different ambitions, I would prefer if he went to England, but I can at least see why he might not want to. It isn’t like he will be on a poor wage at Celtic! 

I definitely agree with the second part - also benefits from having actual football players behind and in front of him. 
 

I'd prefer if he went to England also, a few years ago tbh. The more players we have playing at higher levels is always going to benefit us.

Tbh I cant see why he wouldn't want to other than a lack of faith or ambition.

[eez-eh]

The way some supporters go on you’d think these guys didn’t have families or lives to consider. Not every footballer is going to want to up sticks and move down south or abroad.

[HalfCutNinja]

22 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Well its all about opinions mate, I dont have any dislike for McGregor or any of our players. I think if a top half premiership team had wanted him he would have went. As he could have doubled or tripled his wages. Footballs to short a career not to be doing that if its on offer.

Tbh I think McGregor best Football for Scotland has been since gilmour came into the team. They work very well together, or It might well be that Gilmour makes him play better. Either way he's never been as consistent previously.

 

Leicester tried to buy him for £25 million when Rodgers went there. I believe they were top six at the time.

[gannonball]

41 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

The way some supporters go on you’d think these guys didn’t have families or lives to consider. Not every footballer is going to want to up sticks and move down south or abroad.

I think it’s what people see as ‘ambition’ too, playing better players week in week out or winning trophies as a captain and the potential of champions league football. He plays a ridiculous amount of games each season and nearly always covers the most amounts of ground in games. Doesn’t strike me as somebody who’s happy to coast through his career.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, HalfCutNinja said:

Leicester tried to buy him for £25 million when Rodgers went there. I believe they were top six at the time.

Well thats what was reported anyway, we don't know wether thats true. Even if true we don't know if that fee is accurate or what the offer was. He might have been getting pitched an average contract as a squad guy who can cover many positions. Which at the time I thought was likely.

He wasn't getting in that first choice midfield at the time.

He might now tho.

Just now, gannonball said:

I think it’s what people see as ‘ambition’ too, playing better players week in week out or winning trophies as a captain and the potential of champions league football. He plays a ridiculous amount of games each season and nearly always covers the most amounts of ground in games. Doesn’t strike me as somebody who’s happy to coast through his career.

Well neither of us know him so its guess work eh. If thats his idea and your idea of being ambitious I disagree, but im happy to accept your opinion.

[Satoshi]

4 hours ago, eez-eh said:

The way some supporters go on you’d think these guys didn’t have families or lives to consider. Not every footballer is going to want to up sticks and move down south or abroad.

Correct, the same was said about Scott Brown and it later turned out his sister had cancer.

Like most Scottish football fans I would much prefer to see all our players play at the top level, McGregor is clearly good enough but for whatever reason chooses not to.

He is able to because of the strength of our domestic league, and this is a fact that equally undermines Turkey, Russia, Ukraine and many north African / middle Eastern countries.

McGregor can earn a fortune with Celtic, if he was Finnish even if he could get home sick or had family issues he would almost certainly still leave given it would 10x his salary. Most European nations our size struggle to hold onto any decent player, that isn't the case in Scotland which is good for our domestic game, and bad for our national side.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Satoshi

[Gordopolis]

Correct, the same was said about Scott Brown and it later turned out his sister had cancer.
Like most Scottish football fans I would much prefer to see all our players play at the top level, McGregor is clearly good enough but for whatever reason chooses not to.
He is able to because of the strength of our domestic league, and this is a fact that equally undermines Turkey, Russia, Ukraine and many north African / middle Eastern countries.
McGregor can earn a fortune with Celtic, if he was Finnish even if he could get home sick or had family issues he would almost certainly still leave given it would 10x how salary. Most European nations our size struggle to hold onto any decent player, that isn't the case in Scotland which is good for our domestic game, and back for our national side.

First paragraph of your post is irrefutable - Scott Brown did what a good brother and person should do. Indescribably awful situation for him and his family. Cancer is an utter, utter c*nt.

The rest of the post, I'd agree too. I just want to see a cultured and successful Scotland team. In that respect, is the lop-sided strength of our league a blessing or a curse? On one hand it's reassuring that Scottish football has the financial anchor and prestige of the Old Firm, making it weightier than the other leagues you mention and providing what should be a focal point to bring through Scottish talent.
On the other hand, the two Glasgow sides both are demonstrably limited in terms of European punch* - losing in a few second tier continental finals is the best either has achieved in the last 40 odd years. In that time, plenty of yo-yo/middling English sides have won those comps. So is McGregor maturing and improving at Celtic, or merely plateauing?


*Pretty decent for a country of our size, but hardly the place for our *star* players to languish for their entire careers if we ever really want to consider them as true stars in the worldwide sense.

[Satoshi]

5 hours ago, eez-eh said:

 

Sorry can't seem to cut the above quote.

But reaching three second tier European finals in the last 20 years is actually a terrific achievement, it's three more than much larger footballing nations like Belgium, Sweden, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Greece, Austria, Romania, Switzerland and Serbia combined (along with every European nation that is smaller than Portugal). Turkey last managed it in 2000. On this metric Scottish football is miles out in front, far ahead of nations we have no business being ahead of.

I think a lot of it depends of a players character, the issue in the spfl is that the top players can coast and get away with it, and many who aren't particularly professional do this. Scott brown and Kris Boyd (two of many possible examples) didn't have to try too hard to make good money and he top spfl players. McGregor doesn't seem cut from this cloth and seems to be very professional in his approach. You cant really blame the guy for earning 40k a week any staying in his home town. It's the same reason you don't see many Turkish or Russian players in the top 5 European leagues (or middle Eastern or north African).

If we had a truly dire domestic game like Wales or Ireland we would be outsourcing our entire squad and (club) player development to other nations. There's an argument it might actually be better for the national team, but I would rather have a strong domestic league than that. Our balance isn't perfect, but no one's is.

In fact, since the turn of the millennium Scotland has had more European finalists than the Dutch have, albeit they won the uefa cup back in 2002. If you asked 100 Scottish football fans that probably less than 1-2% would think that is true.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Satoshi

[Pie Of The Month]

7 hours ago, Satoshi said:

In fact, since the turn of the millennium Scotland has had more European finalists than the Dutch have, albeit they won the uefa cup back in 2002. If you asked 100 Scottish football fans that probably less than 1-2% would think that is true.

The 98-99% who didn't believe it would be right to be fair to them.

Feyenoord (UEFA Cup 2002 and Conference League 2022) and Ajax (Europa League 2017) have been European finalists since the turn of the millennium.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Pie Of The Month