Neurodiversity

[Hedgecutter]

1 hour ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

I'm from a generation where mental 'disorders' were very much a subject of ridicule.

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

If you are describing ND as something diagnosable which causes significant impairment then the word "disorder" is probably appropriate to be fair.

We're living in an age when many struggle to deal with any association with something deemed negative, probably as a hangover from what's described in the first post above.  As far as I'm concerned, I have something irreversibly wrong with me, and I'd rather accept it and move on with it the best I can rather than write stuff like the blog pictured below.  I don't get this burning desire to turn anything negative into a happy-clappy positive, which seems to have become the norm.

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Hedgecutter

[Thorongil]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

This is where I start to get a bit lost.

I have no idea what a NT is supposed to be. I don't think there is any such thing.

Some people are overly emotional. Some people are overly detached from others. As humans we become quite good at working out which balance of people we want in our lives.

By the way, I'm not much different from you in terms of not wanting people around me. I don't feel bad or beat myself up about it. I am who I am. I find most people are a drain and I deliberately keep my social circle to those who don't suck the life right out of me.

same.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

44 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

We're living in an age when many struggle to deal with any association with something deemed negative, probably as a hangover from what's described in the first post above.  As far as I'm concerned, I have something irreversibly wrong with me, and I'd rather accept it and move on with it the best I can rather than write stuff like the blog pictured below.  I don't get this burning desire to turn anything negative into a happy-clappy positive, which seems to have become the norm.

 

Couldn't agree more, although maybe 'different' would be a better word than 'wrong', but that's your  business. 

[SweeperDee]

Every human has a unique personality, with their own idiosyncrasies that people around them will never understand or appreciate; but there are specific patterns in a persons behaviour and psychology that can allow them to be labelled NT. I’d argue most people are “on the spectrum” to some degree, it could actually be natures way of ensuring diversity in the gene pool.

[Hedgecutter]

54 minutes ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

Couldn't agree more, although maybe 'different' would be a better word than 'wrong'

I find this a bit of a paradoxical comment tbh.

Whilst my brain is indeed working differently to most people's, the way it's working is indeed wrong.  To actively suggest a change of the valid latter term in favour of 'different' is actively copping out of calling a spade a spade by purposely replacing it with a term that could feasibly imply that it's working fine in an alternative manner, which would be misleading.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

I have one of the conditions that qualify as neurodiverse, I'm not going to say which one but if anyone can guess then i'll confirm if they get it right.  

For me I'd say it's quite a difficult one to deal with to be totally honest, I essentially do know wright from wrong and what is & isn't acceptable behavior and proper etiquette, but i often forget to remember to stick to the script. I present as a normal person about 70% of the time and therefor get held accountable as such. 

I never engaged with any online community until recently, i went from aged 18 to 32 without receiving any support at all, back when i were a lad, doctors were only concerned with immediate behavioral implications and the ability to function in a classroom environment. My parents were wrongly told that i would grow out of it as I got older and when i was leaving school I was told that since I wasn't going to be doing an office type job that i would be completely fine and i was discharged. It wasn't true, they also neglected to tell me of around a dozen or so other symptoms which I never fully understood till i was in my 30s. When i finally went back for some support, I engaged with some social media accounts, f**k me has that grown arms & legs. There are many who have taken quite a militant stance on things, in a similar way to what LGBT and gender rights discussion has become quite toxic.  There are many who will simply label anything other than complete unquestioning acceptance as "ableist" eg giving guidance on good conversation skills and not fidgeting is somehow "ableist" as you are insinuating negativity with the ND behaviour.

I'm considered a traitor by these people because i think it's all bullshit. My words and actions can and do affect other people, if i'm not paying attention to them when they're talking to me then they may get upset, if i snap at someone whilst i'm irritable and under stress then i could easily get a punch in the mouth ( people aren't mind readers!) I've gotten a reputation in the past for being the volatile one, which people can't be arsed with.

it's a c**t of a condition for something that is essentially invisible, on a good day you can do anything and everything right, but you simple can't maintain it and inevitably slip up when you're tired or run down or under pressure, which is a double whammy as those around you wonder or cast doubt since you were able to behave absolutely fine just the other day. your husband or wife ends up feeling like they have another child to deal with and people become quite resentful  

Edited June 24, 2022 by effeffsee_the2nd

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

51 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

I find this a bit of a paradoxical comment tbh.

Whilst my brain is indeed working differently to most people's, the way it's working is indeed wrong.  To actively suggest a change of the valid latter term in favour of 'different' is actively copping out of calling a spade a spade by purposely replacing it with a term that could feasibly imply that it's working fine in an alternative manner, which would be misleading.

Aye, fair enough. You've explained that really well. Wasn't trying to be politically correct or anything, 'different' just seems more positive than 'wrong' to me. 

[mozam76]

Genuinely one of the most informative and interesting to read threads on here. 

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, mozam76 said:

Genuinely one of the most informative and interesting to read threads on here. 

Totally agree.  I was just going to post something similar. 

I like to think I've a little professional insight, but this enlightening thread is telling me how limited that is.  

Genuinely fascinating stuff.  

[SweeperDee]

The irony is that homosexuality used to be considered a disorder by quite a large number of medical professionals.
These people aren't called quacks for no reason.
As [mention=13234]Hedgecutter[/mention] says, ultimately it's down to the individuals affected by this to decide for themselves what label, if any, to use.
In terms of acceptance? I suppose it depends on what you are asking of the general public. That needs to be clearly articulated as part of any educational path.

As obvious as it sounds, humans shouldn’t have to be taught to tolerate other people and how act differently from what is considered “normal” (normal depending on culture, society, etc). Children from a young age make no distinction from “different” kids, they all try and play with one and other, up until their parents get involved and tell them to treat them differently.

[SweeperDee]

The irony is that homosexuality used to be considered a disorder by quite a large number of medical professionals.
These people aren't called quacks for no reason.
As [mention=13234]Hedgecutter[/mention] says, ultimately it's down to the individuals affected by this to decide for themselves what label, if any, to use.
In terms of acceptance? I suppose it depends on what you are asking of the general public. That needs to be clearly articulated as part of any educational path.

As obvious as it sounds, humans shouldn’t have to be taught to tolerate other people and how they act differently from what is considered “normal” (normal depending on culture, society, etc). Children from a young age make no distinction from “different” kids, they all try and play with one and other, up until their parents get involved and tell them to treat them differently.

[SweeperDee]

I have to disagree with that.
Kids are renowned for spotting an outsider and isolating/bullying them. It's got nothing to do with their parents. Kids are vicious b*****ds all on their own I'm afraid and it starts from the earliest age. Anyone who is wildly different will be eyed with suspicion.
The reason people need to be taught tolerance is because the fear of the tiger is something we are born with as a defence mechanism against danger. Of course there is no tiger nowadays but it manifests itself as "this person is different". If that default response to difference is not corrected in childhood it can morph into the wide range of "-isms" which society deals with in adulthood.
When I say "taught", I mean normalising. People become less racist when they grow up amongst people of other colours, fully interact with them and see they are not scary dragons in real life for example.

I worded it poorly; they do acknowledge “differences” from an early age, but by no means do they alter their behaviour towards those who are different.

https://news.yale.edu/2020/06/15/its-never-too-early-talk-children-about-race

This article explicitly states that children receive the notion of “difference” and “the other” from outside sources (parents, media, etc). Humans have an inherent bias to forming social bonds with same race individuals but that has been increasingly dying out in western culture. I’m not wanting to turn this into a race issue but studies into children acknowledging neurodiverse individuals is pretty sparse.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

8 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I suppose it depends. If someone can use the word "different" as a way of avoiding dealing with their situation then it can be highly damaging.

It's really got to be down to the individual. And each individual can't rely on how other people see and treat them as a measure of their own self-worth. There has to be an element of not giving a f**k what other people think of you unless it is denying you job opportunities or whatever.

Not the longest post you've contributed to P&B but I'm seeing quite a lot in it.  There's no question of me using the word 'different' as a way of avoiding facing up to being an Aspie. . 

I know I'm, 'different', I've always known, I've happily accepted and embraced that, (ok, took a while, but I got there), consequently my perception of the world is different to that of an NT. It doesn't make me something special, and it doesn't mean I'm seeing myself as any kind of victim. You're dealt cards in life,  you play these cards as best you can.

Not giving a f**k what others think of you is the way to go, for sure. Not so easy when you're trying to weigh up a situation and using what is essentially a fractured thought process to do it. Inevitabally you over-think things and either say something stupid and inappropriate or just say nothing (and look stupid).

These days are thankfully behind me now, I just smile and move on. For someone younger and less able to cope with Aspergers, my heart goes out to them. It's not a nice place to be.