36 years, how much longer?

[DA Baracus]

Presumably a club like Brighton or Bournmouth will win the English Premier League if they just want it more?

In the same vein, presumably Manchester City went from an average middle to lower league team to multiple time English Premier League winners because they just decided one day to work a bit harder and want it more?

Edited August 8, 2022 by DA Baracus

[Miguel Sanchez]

Imagine inadvertently posting the same talking points as wastecoatwilly. I'd delete my account from the shame.

[SuperSaints1877]

4 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

You think the solution is for an investor to put in money, running up unsustainable losses, to show ambition and be proactive.

That is a model tried by the following clubs.

Gretna - deid.

Rangers - deid.

Dundee - two administrations 

Livingston - two administrations 

Motherwell - one administration

I trust I have got that information on those clubs correct.

All these clubs failed to pay their creditors because they chose to pay outlandish salaries to players and managers trying to achieve silverware to please their fan base.

Totally unsustainable. 

My own club may well post a 7 figure loss (year end 31st May 2022) when the accounts are published at the end of this year. Why? Chasing Tony Fitzpatrick’s Top 6 dream. What a state for a small club to get in. Our fans need to get answers from our owners as to the wage:turnover ratio. A wage-to-turnover of 60% or under is considered best practice for a football team.

The only chance any diddy clubs have of silverware is the League Cup and Scottish Cup. When Rangers died I don’t think Celtic or Sevco won many of the cups in the following 4 or 5 seasons.

The last time I think PwC produced reports was in 2012 covering seasons 2010 & 2011.

https://pwc.blogs.com/files/2012---financial-review-of-spl-football2010-11_final.pdf

It would be great to see if there are any more up to date versions covering Scottish football.

So these are some examples of the top league 10 years ago before Rangers went bust. The only change is Livingston now in top league as opposed to Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

[SuperSaints1877]

4 hours ago, GroundHoppingBear said:

We finished third in the Championship ffs.

And that was with the second largest budget in Scottish football. Even in the bottom league in your march up the seaside leagues you operated with the second largest budget in Scotland.

The tribute act (RFC-2012) despite having this financial clout never won a major domestic honour between 2012 and 2020. 

That is the most Tin Pot thing that has ever happened in Scottish football and will forever be known as “The Banter Years”.

[SuperSaints1877]

58 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Nope. St Mirren. Although that has been very sorely tested this season after we signed a convicted thug.

You never attend any games home or away. You are not a member of SMiSA the fan owners. You are not a shareholder. You are not a Season ticket holder. Even though you have retired early after selling your business you still can’t afford to support St Mirren in any way financially. 

Even during the Covid season when St Mirren were appealing for supporters to buy a season ticket or games via PPV you refused to dip into your pocket and support the club. 

You bragged at the time on Divs other site BAWA that you would rather watch games for free on Hesgoal. I think someone once described you as “Hesgoal Harry”. I prefer Wokesoft.

You are not what I class as a “supporter” of St Mirren FC.

[SuperSaints1877]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Any attempt at ambition is ridiculed (see how Fitzpatrick was treated a few years back) and quenched. It's the Scottish way.

Let’s just wait and see the St Mirren accounts after “Top 6 Tony’s” last season in charge.

Recent reports coming out the club at an official fan meeting is that St Mirren incurred a £1M loss as a result. If true, how much of that was down to the CEOs  mismanagement of the budget or the Board of Directors. This was the same season we received compensation for McGrath (Wigan) and Goodwin (Aberdeen).

November/December 2022 when the accounts should be published.

I seem to remember his first time in charge of St Mirren when he spent shed loads on money on transfers, signing on fees and wages. 

He was awfully ambitious!

Thomas Stickroth for £400,000 and played a total of 61 games.
Roddy Manley £250,000 and played a total of 100 games.
Fraser Wishart £285,000 and played a total of 51 games.

I don’t believe we recouped very much when all these players left the club.

Steve Archibald played a total of 17 games on a huge pay per game and goal bonus. Thankfully he only scored 2 goals.

Victor Munoz played a total of 18 games after signing from Serie A Sampdoria.

I’m sure there are other players during that period he signed that @Arch Stanton or @djchapsticks can recall.

 

[PossilYM]

Aberdeen last won it 37 years ago.

Outside of a 4 season burst back in the early 1980s, you'd need to go back to 1965 and Kilmarnock winning the top league in 1965.

Even a 15 year old Killie fan in 1965 is 72 this year.

Basically most of the posts on here are laughable.

The only two who came close in last 37 years, Hearts and Aberdeen, blew it on the last day in 1986 and 1991.

 

 

[Dons_1988]

6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If this is your view then fair enough.

Defeatism is rife in our game. That's why the situation we are in as as bad as it is.

It's why Motherwell got papped out last week by an Irish team FFS. It's why it took our men's team 24 years and counting to make a World Cup whilst virtually every other established nation routinely qualifies. There's just not enough belief within our borders.

If that doesn't change, then sure, we'll never see the gap closed.

I’m sorry but this doesn’t bear up to any scrutiny. Not to say the problem you describe doesn’t exist but that it is in any way the primary cause of 36 years of this shite. 

You cite Motherwell in Europe but individual cup ties are in no way comparable to a 38 game season anyway. 

And to your points around short term financial gain, if st Mirren started refusing to sell players because they want to win the league then good luck to them recruiting talented young players in the future. 

[BFTD]

6 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

You never attend any games home or away. You are not a member of SMiSA the fan owners. You are not a shareholder. You are not a Season ticket holder. Even though you have retired early after selling your business you still can’t afford to support St Mirren in any way financially. 

Even during the Covid season when St Mirren were appealing for supporters to buy a season ticket or games via PPV you refused to dip into your pocket and support the club. 

You bragged at the time on Divs other site BAWA that you would rather watch games for free on Hesgoal. I think someone once described you as “Hesgoal Harry”. I prefer Wokesoft.

You are not what I class as a “supporter” of St Mirren FC.

Shocked by this. He must have posted here about football on at least half a dozen occasions.

Mainly to link it to his worldview of "success is easy, you just need to want it more", but that's something, surely.

[Guest]

Sometimes I feel sorry for OF fans genuinely not knowing what a meaningful title or cup feels like, then I remember how utterly abhorrent they all are and go back to despising them.

[TheScarf]

9 minutes ago, Empty It said:

Sometimes I feel sorry for OF fans genuinely not knowing what a meaningful title or cup feels like, then I remember how utterly abhorrent they all are and go back to despising them.

Every single domestic game they play must feel like when your team play a team 2/3 tiers below you in the cup and you beat them easily 2/3/4-0. You feel a mild sense of relief and barely any satisfaction.

[Willie adie]

Perhaps a major stumbling block is the mentality of the other clubs , accepting the league is over before it's begun 

The instil this attitude to the whole club, boardroom, coaching, playing staff, and this filters out to the fans, 

We also have the MSM feeding us the rhetoric that suits thier narrative, 

Perhaps there is a case for saying all leagues have the big successful clubs but has any other country had such a long period where only two clubs are champions 

[SuperSaints1877]

38 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Every single domestic game they play must feel like when your team play a team 2/3 tiers below you in the cup and you beat them easily 2/3/4-0. You feel a mild sense of relief and barely any satisfaction.

Maybe that explains why they sing songs with no relevance to football.

Bunch of weird bigoted fuckers.

Imagine the outcry across the UK if they were singing songs about killing Muslims, Jews or racist chants.

But no. Tribal sectarianism relating to Catholicism and Protestantism is ok as far as the SFA, the SPFL, the police and the Scottish Government.

Both clubs marketing strategy plays along with these abhorrent views.

Edited August 9, 2022 by SuperSaints1877

[stu92]

8 hours ago, CoF said:

And given that overall financial gulf is less than the gulf between Celtic and PSG, why haven't Celtic won the Champions League? 

In Celtic’s defence, PSG haven’t won the Champions League either. Maybe neither of them particularly fancy it. 

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

 

In the same vein, presumably Manchester City went from an average middle to lower league team to multiple time English Premier League winners because they just decided one day to work a bit harder and want it more?

I remember when Chelsea used to skitter around between the top two divisions.

Then early this century, they started trying really hard.

[Dons_1988]

I think the sectarianism thing is a separate argument and the conversation just goes down a bad rabbit hole when you start conflating that with the financial disparity. I do understand there is crossover there but it’s not particularly helpful to dwell on it. 

The reason Celtic fans celebrate so wildly for a late winner at Ross county isn’t because they’re beating county but because of both teams obsession with beating one another. The huge factor that has caused so much harm to the game. This arms race to outdo each other has fucking ruined the domestic game in this country, and neither of them have any awareness of what they’ve done. 

It’s laughable because the emotion in Dingwall is sadly a reality that 2 dropped points away from home in week 2 of the season could well have a significant say in who wins the league, such is the expectation that 10 teams in the league are steamrollered week in, week out. Again, none of these idiots will ever take a step back and realise this. 

[TheScarf]

Where does all the extra income come from for these clubs to be able to challenge for the title? 

[TheScarf]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think the sectarianism thing is a separate argument and the conversation just goes down a bad rabbit hole when you start conflating that with the financial disparity. I do understand there is crossover there but it’s not particularly helpful to dwell on it. 

The reason Celtic fans celebrate so wildly for a late winner at Ross county isn’t because they’re beating county but because of both teams obsession with beating one another. The huge factor that has caused so much harm to the game. This arms race to outdo each other has fucking ruined the domestic game in this country, and neither of them have any awareness of what they’ve done. 

It’s laughable because the emotion in Dingwall is sadly a reality that 2 dropped points away from home in week 2 of the season could well have a significant say in who wins the league, such is the expectation that 10 teams in the league are steamrollered week in, week out. Again, none of these idiots will ever take a step back and realise this. 

Yep, you see it every time either team score a late winner against anyone other than Rangers/Celtic.  They're not delighted they've beaten County/Livi/St Mirren, it's because they've won and it means the other can't pull away from them in the league.

[10menwent2mow]

There have been some absolutely wild takes on this thread, too many to list. There have also been some very sensible posts. 

Why are Celtic and Rangers not successful in the champions League? They must have a defeatist attitude towards it, come on guys, do something about it, be more professional, want it more and you'll get it. 

Of course there is an acceptance of the duopoly, what do you expect? I was born in 84 so have known nothing else, fortunately I'm just young enough to not be irreparably scarred by 91. 

When Rangers died, this idea that it was a chance to change everything was a total fallacy. Celtic were desperate for them to be back and although a few teams did win cup competitions, then Rangers returned in their current incarnation and Celtic upped their game. 

In Deila's 2 seasons. We picked up 75 points in season 1 without picking up.a point against them, they had 92, meaning we'd have need to beat them 3/4. In season 2 they had 86 to our 71 and that was with 2 wins against them. So even if we'd picked up the 75 points we did against the other teams the previous season, we'd still have fallen short by 5 points. For context, Hearts picked up 65 from 28 at 2.3ppg from games against everyone else in 97-98. Even if we'd done that in season 1 and beaten them twice, we'd still have fallen a point short. 

[TheScarf]