Rest in Peace Scottish football

[Monkey Tennis]

11 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

So essentially what you want is the NFL.

If you truly want a socialist football league then pyramid system can’t really exist and would become redundant in such a system as the gap between divisions would become even bigger.

We end up with regionalised clubs and franchise football.

Yay

No, that's not what I'm saying.

As you guys are often fond of highlighting, there has always been imbalance.  Clubs from big cities tend to dominate in leagues everywhere.

That imbalance has become stratospheric in the last three decades though.  I want much of that reversed.  I'm not angling for a socialist utopia.

I just want it to be fairer, less predictable and more engaging.  

However, these modest aspirations seem to be entirely beyond the pale for the Celtic fans posting in here.

It seems that they can't tolerate the notion of even a slightly fairer fight. 

[Jinky67]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

No, that's not what I'm saying.

As you guys are often fond of highlighting, there has always been imbalance.  Clubs from big cities tend to dominate in leagues everywhere.

That imbalance has become stratospheric in the last three decades though.  I want much of that reversed.  I'm not angling for a socialist utopia.

I just want it to be fairer, less predictable and more engaging.  

However, these modest aspirations seem to be entirely beyond the pale for the Celtic fans posting in here.

It seems that they can't tolerate the notion of even a slightly fairer fight. 

Only 250 million comes through Scottish football in a season at the very most. Equivalent to what Leicester do in a season. 

Good luck splitting that and even hoping the league becomes anything of note, like i said it may be competitive but you just create a grand canyon sized financial gap to the rest of Europe. None of of our clubs become competitive on that stage….ever.

That may suit you right enough never having had a dog in the race.

The only way your idea works is with 1 division no promotion, no relegation and we become the NFL and even then we still wouldn’t see a Scottish club do anything of note ever again but you get your competitive football however your club won’t be in it

Edited August 27, 2022 by Jinky67

[Monkey Tennis]

14 minutes ago, Illgresi said:

 

Mate, that's a fantastic idea, but it fails in a couple of key ways:

1. League membership is voluntary, so it would be far simpler (and probably more effective) for the real 40 (R40) to just resign their membership.
2. We're currently ruled by a Tory government, based in another country. You can absolutely guarantee they would find a way to spit in our pint.

Yes, but this way, we screw the existing competition.  It gets attacked and stripped of value from within.  

The 3rd placed team that we all consider champions get to go into Europe and divide the spoils according to an agreed internal model. 

The Tories in the form of Celtic would of course aim to thwart it, but I don't see what grounds they'd have.

I know it'll never happen by the way, but I'd Iove to see something like it, somewhere.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

11 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

If you are happy to have a competitive league and never see a Scottish club enter the group stage of a European completion again then it’s magnificent.

 

Ah yes, then there's those two Scottish clubs whose supporters greet our continental visitors with Union flags and Irish tricolours.  Magnificent.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Only 250 million comes through Scottish football in a season at the very most. Equivalent to what Leicester do in a season. 

Good luck splitting that and even hoping the league becomes anything of note, like i said it may be competitive but you just create a grand canyon sized financial gap to the rest of Europe. None of of our clubs become competitive on that stage….ever.

That may suit you right enough never having had a dog in the race.

The only way your idea works is with 1 division no promotion, no relegation and we become the NFL and even then we still wouldn’t see a Scottish club do anything of note ever again

Why does the league ‘being anything of note’ outside these borders trump it being anything of note within them? 

[10menwent2mow]

6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

If you are happy to accept that as your reality however you then what’s is in it for the Champions? Entry into a qualifier they have no hope of winning?

That also diminishes any hope of us bringing any real quality in the league, talented youngsters will move at a younger age and for less £ to other leagues to test themselves against the best.

What we need is more money in our game not less of it.

 

This also sums up everything that's wrong with European football. It's become so commercialised that reaching the group stages is seen as some sort of achievement for clubs from a country of our size. I understand that there are more countries and more clubs playing European football now but Hearts, Rangers and Celtic reaching what is essentially the last 32 of a competition is seen as brilliant. The UEFA cup, the season we got to the group's was so convoluted that we only actually won 1 game and it got us through a qualifier and the group's and into the last 32. We reached the knockout stages by winning 1 game out of 6. 

[Jinky67]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

Why does the league ‘being anything of note’ outside these borders trump it being anything of note within them? 

If that suits you fair enough however as an Aberdeen fan with a rich European history to never ever want to experience that again?

Fucking hell 

[DA Baracus]

10 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I just want it to be fairer, less predictable and more engaging.  

However, these modest aspirations seem to be entirely beyond the pale for the Celtic fans posting in here.

They actively rally against anything that makes the league fairer. They have absolutely zero interest in even a facade at an attempt at equity. See, for example, voting rights, TV money allocation, sponsorship allocation, their control of the media, tears about referees, the split fixtures, where they enter in cup competitions (although that one isn't exclusive to them), the lies about Rangers dying and other shit.

[Monkey Tennis]

4 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Only 250 million comes through Scottish football in a season at the very most. Equivalent to what Leicester do in a season. 

Good luck splitting that and even hoping the league becomes anything of note, like i said it may be competitive but you just create a grand canyon sized financial gap to the rest of Europe. None of of our clubs become competitive on that stage….ever.

That may suit you right enough never having had a dog in the race.

The only way your idea works is with 1 division no promotion, no relegation and we become the NFL and even then we still wouldn’t see a Scottish club do anything of note ever again

I know that this is a chasm between my view and yours, but I don't really care how our clubs perform in Europe.

I would happily sacrifice any sense of 'standing' for a more interesting and varied domestic landscape.

It wouldn't trouble me if we became like the League of Ireland with all the Scotland players playing elsewhere.  I'd happily take that in return for different winners and teams having a chance.

I often think that OF fans don't realise that you get fans who see it this way.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

If that suits you fair enough however as an Aberdeen fan with a rich European history to never ever want to experience that again?

Fucking hell 

I didn’t say that. I would love that. But again, you don’t realise what’s happening here. 

You realise you’ll never see the like of the Lisbon lions again because of this very problem? Celtic have been shut out too, just on a different scale. 

You are willing to destroy our domestic league as a competition in pursuit of a European elite that doesn’t fucking want you. 

[10menwent2mow]

2 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

If that suits you fair enough however as an Aberdeen fan with a rich European history to never ever want to experience that again?

Fucking hell 

So you'd rather we aspire to be a tiny fish in a massive pond (in Europe) rather than be the same sized fish as everyone else in a relatively sized pond????

As an Aberdeen fan, I've accepted that we might have the odd decent result in Europe. In my lifetime, Dnipro, Copenhagen, 2-2 with Bayern, Groningen, Rijeka. Yet you still have fans of Rangers and Celtic chastising us for losing to teams like Apollon, Kairat, Qarabag all of whom had vastly superior resources to us. 

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Why does the league ‘being anything of note’ outside these borders trump it being anything of note within them? 

That's perfect.

 

Bravo!

[10menwent2mow]

10 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Why does the league ‘being anything of note’ outside these borders trump it being anything of note within them? 

Absolutely this. 

[Jinky67]

4 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

So you'd rather we aspire to be a tiny fish in a massive pond (in Europe) rather than be the same sized fish as everyone else in a relatively sized pond????

As an Aberdeen fan, I've accepted that we might have the odd decent result in Europe. In my lifetime, Dnipro, Copenhagen, 2-2 with Bayern, Groningen, Rijeka. Yet you still have fans of Rangers and Celtic chastising us for losing to teams like Apollon, Kairat, Qarabag all of whom had vastly superior resources to us. 

No i’d rather try get better, improve our performances, grow our revenues and develop our players to try close that gap.

Move forwards not backwards

[10menwent2mow]

1 minute ago, Jinky67 said:

No i’d rather try get better, improve our performances, grow our revenues and develop our players to try close that gap.

Move forwards not backwards

So why is group stage football going to attract people to Scotland outwith the ugly sisters. Ok hearts have made the groups this season, but so have teams from Cyprus, Slovakia, Lithuania, Ireland, Liechtenstein, Armenia, Latvia and Kosovo. Teams from these countries (apart from Liechtenstein) may be able to sell group stage football alongside a realistic chance of actually winning something. We can say, come to Scotland, try and finish 3rd at best and maybe get a few games in Europe. 

[DMCs]

13 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

So you'd rather we aspire to be a tiny fish in a massive pond (in Europe) rather than be the same sized fish as everyone else in a relatively sized pond????

As an Aberdeen fan, I've accepted that we might have the odd decent result in Europe. In my lifetime, Dnipro, Copenhagen, 2-2 with Bayern, Groningen, Rijeka. Yet you still have fans of Rangers and Celtic chastising us for losing to teams like Apollon, Kairat, Qarabag all of whom had vastly superior resources to us. 

Aberdeen have certainly been beat by teams with bigger budgets and resources in the recent past in Europe. Sociedad and the likes. But do Apollon and Qarabag really have more money than Aberdeen. £10m+ revenue is where you at right?

[Monkey Tennis]

9 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

No i’d rather try get better, improve our performances, grow our revenues and develop our players to try close that gap.

Move forwards not backwards

It's Liz Truss again.

Boosterism without a basis.

[Jinky67]

12 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

So why is group stage football going to attract people to Scotland outwith the ugly sisters. Ok hearts have made the groups this season, but so have teams from Cyprus, Slovakia, Lithuania, Ireland, Liechtenstein, Armenia, Latvia and Kosovo. Teams from these countries (apart from Liechtenstein) may be able to sell group stage football alongside a realistic chance of actually winning something. We can say, come to Scotland, try and finish 3rd at best and maybe get a few games in Europe. 

I didn’t say it would, what our game needs is a bigger pot spread more equally in terms of domestic TV revenues, prize pots etc etc not an already small pot spread thinly.

I’ve said before i have no idea how the likes of Norway have TV revenues for their domestic league that double ours, we are also eclipsed by the likes of Denmark. Does this address an immediate imbalance? No it doesn’t and i doubt anything will quickly but it does add a bit more money if spread more equally will help.

f**k even limit the number of foreigners we have, spend that money on having our teams mostly full of talented Scottish players who just now don’t get a shot and maybe we may even see a benefit to our national team.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Jinky67

[Jinky67]

7 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It's Liz Truss again.

Boosterism without a basis.

Yeah mate imagine me even having the temerity to think about getting better at football.

 

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Right up until it impacts them, yes. Massive champions of equality hypocrisy.