A list of reasons why you would NEVER vote SNP (now or in an iScotland)

[Guest Jedi]

Well, being that there is a Labour thread of the same name, how about...

Working in tandem with the Tories between 2007-2011 to get their policies through, generally having a love in with Annabel Goldie.

Sending elderly people with COVID back into care homes to further spread the virus and lead to a higher death rate

Throwing teachers under the bus during COVID by refusing to admit that schools were not safe places at the height of the pandemic, and doing so in order to court popularity

Consistently cosying up to the business community in order to court popularity

Dismantling bus services since 2007 with many local routes being shelves and passenger numbers down 25% since 2007

Failure to replace the Council Tax with a local income tax as promised to do so in '100 days in 2007.

Slashing funding for key environmental bodies, such as the Royal Botanic Gardens, SEPA, SNH, 

Missing their own social homes target by 22% 

Promise to set up a Publicly Owned Energy Company in 2017...where is it?

The sidelining of the membership in favour of a small coterie of Nicola's pals basically calling all the shots

The sidelining of 'other' groups in the Yes Campaign, particularly RIC

Refusal to increase the top rate of income tax in order to appease the middle class/business community

Trying to appear 'left', while being economically 'right'

Highest number of drugs related deaths in Europe, in Scotland

The grossly over budget over time Ferry Project

Constant claims that Scotland has no authority over funding despite having control of income tax bands and rates.

1 in 4 children in Scotland living in poverty

The centralisation of Police Scotland which has led to a much reduced service across the country

Food Bank use in Scotland increasing by 75% over the past 4 years

Some 350,000 workers in Scotland still don't earn the Living Wage

Buying Tata Steel for £1, then selling it on to Liberty Steel, in breach of state aid regulations. Providing the head of Liberty Steel a £586 million power purchase guarantee, a move which could end up costing the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds due to the financial failure of Liberty Steel

handing substantial contacts off the north coast to noted polluters BP and Shell, and giving them public money to do so

The farce which was the Named Persons Bill

Cutting college places

Recently cosying up to the monarchy

The water contamination scandal at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital

A proposal to hand interest rates to the Bank of England post-Independence

Proposal to slash public services in Scotland to the bone after Independence (for up to 10 years)

Funding of NHS Scotland failing to keep pace with similar funding in England

NS suggesting that the GRA was a 'top priority' for government (fair enough have one, but a 'top priority'?)

Derek McKay

Kate Forbes

Derek McKay...again

Just for starters...

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Jedi

[Guest Jedi]

Just now, BudBudBud said:

Their utterly abysmal record on education really sticks in my craw.

Indeed, failing to cut class sizes from P 1-3 (having promised that in 2007), 86% of pupils there are not in classes of 18 or less. substantial cut in the number of ASN posts, an attainment gap of nearly 40% between wealthiest and most deprived areas, college numbers falling by 65,000, falling maths and science scores, 

And then there is Health....

[sophia]

43 minutes ago, Jedi said:

handing substantial contacts off the north coast to noted polluters BP and Shell, and giving them public money to do so

 

25 minutes ago, BudBudBud said:

Their utterly abysmal record on education really sticks in my craw.

I totally agree 

[Guest Jedi]

7 minutes ago, sophia said:

 

I totally agree 

Seriously?

[Guest Jedi]

In the interests of fairness, things they have done well:

Free Prescriptions

Increased Free Child Care hours/provision

Blocked Fracking

Maintained no tuition fess

Baby Boxes

Proceeds of Crime Bill (the only 'redistributive measure)

 

Took part in a positive campaign for Independence (in 2014)

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

Used to be a useful GIRUY protest vote vehicle and are despite the contents of the opening post more competent at governance than Labour in a Scottish context but time they got a grip where independence referenda are concerned or they will need to be given the heave ho.

If the polls aren't consistently 55%+ Yes maybe take the hint that the answer will still be No and focus on doing more with the powers Holyrood already has until that changes? Being able to game the Holyrood electoral system by having the Greens as an alter ego on the regional lists does not give you a mandate for independence.

[Guest Jedi]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If the polls aren't consistently 55%+ Yes maybe take the hint that the answer will still be No and focus on doing more with the powers Holyrood already has until that changes? Being able to game the Holyrood electoral system by having the Greens as an alter ego on the regional lists does not give you a mandate for independence.

Absolutely. Latest polling puts Yes somewhere between 44-47%, and that is even after the recent Truss show. From that figure you could say that it still hasn't really moved much from 2014. 

The Scot govt still want to portray themselves as a protest movement rather than a govt though. Despite having been in power for 15 years, their narrative of 'our hands are tied, what can you expect us to do, unless we have the 'full levers' of Independence etc'.

They are going to have 2 very interesting elections up next....the GE likely in 2024, where if the Supreme Court says no, they have pledged to stand on a single ticket platform of 'negotiate independence' (though we don't know if that means a majority of seats (tricky one) or over 50% of the vote.

Next up, the Scottish election of 2026, where if there still hasn't been a Ref, or 'negotiation', what's the plan then? Ask the electorate for 'another' mandate, while continuing to say our hands are tied,etc

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Another clear reason is Ranjurs.

[Caledonian1]

2 hours ago, sophia said:

 

I totally agree 

If you repeat a lie often enough............no matter how often he was corrected on this he just wont give up.

[Highlandmagar]

4 hours ago, Jedi said:

Well, being that there is a Labour thread of the same name, how about...

Working in tandem with the Tories between 2007-2011 to get their policies through, generally having a love in with Annabel Goldie.

Sending elderly people with COVID back into care homes to further spread the virus and lead to a higher death rate

Throwing teachers under the bus during COVID by refusing to admit that schools were not safe places at the height of the pandemic, and doing so in order to court popularity

Consistently cosying up to the business community in order to court popularity

Dismantling bus services since 2007 with many local routes being shelves and passenger numbers down 25% since 2007

Failure to replace the Council Tax with a local income tax as promised to do so in '100 days in 2007.

Slashing funding for key environmental bodies, such as the Royal Botanic Gardens, SEPA, SNH, 

Missing their own social homes target by 22% 

Promise to set up a Publicly Owned Energy Company in 2017...where is it?

The sidelining of the membership in favour of a small coterie of Nicola's pals basically calling all the shots

The sidelining of 'other' groups in the Yes Campaign, particularly RIC

Refusal to increase the top rate of income tax in order to appease the middle class/business community

Trying to appear 'left', while being economically 'right'

Highest number of drugs related deaths in Europe, in Scotland

The grossly over budget over time Ferry Project

Constant claims that Scotland has no authority over funding despite having control of income tax bands and rates.

1 in 4 children in Scotland living in poverty

The centralisation of Police Scotland which has led to a much reduced service across the country

Food Bank use in Scotland increasing by 75% over the past 4 years

Some 350,000 workers in Scotland still don't earn the Living Wage

Buying Tata Steel for £1, then selling it on to Liberty Steel, in breach of state aid regulations. Providing the head of Liberty Steel a £586 million power purchase guarantee, a move which could end up costing the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds due to the financial failure of Liberty Steel

handing substantial contacts off the north coast to noted polluters BP and Shell, and giving them public money to do so

The farce which was the Named Persons Bill

Cutting college places

Recently cosying up to the monarchy

The water contamination scandal at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital

A proposal to hand interest rates to the Bank of England post-Independence

Proposal to slash public services in Scotland to the bone after Independence (for up to 10 years)

Funding of NHS Scotland failing to keep pace with similar funding in England

NS suggesting that the GRA was a 'top priority' for government (fair enough have one, but a 'top priority'?)

Derek McKay

Kate Forbes

Derek McKay...again

Just for starters...

 

 

Quite frankly I'd rather vote for a shite SNP to use as a vehicle for Independence than waste it on a Labour Party who are an utter disgrace of an organisation. Pandering to the racism of Brexit to try to win an election. Absolutely shameful political party.

[Guest Jedi]

48 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said:

Quite frankly I'd rather vote for a shite SNP to use as a vehicle for Independence than waste it on a Labour Party who are an utter disgrace of an organisation. Pandering to the racism of Brexit to try to win an election. Absolutely shameful political party.

They really aren't 'pandering to the racism' of Brexit to win an election..that assertion is based entirely on a single (albeit misguided) comment made by Rachel Reeves rather than the reality of party policy..(which shockingly on immigration pretty much matches what the SNP propose.

Tbh, for the current Labour Party to constantly raise 'objections' based on single said Rachel Reeves comment and sidelining one shadow cabinet member for standing on a picket line, and er...that's about it...is not bad compared to the objectiosn which can be levelled at the Tories and also the SNP.list above.

[Guest Jedi]

There is a bit of an impasse and vicious cycle now unfortunately..

Support for Independence is between 44-47% (consistently in recent times)...Not enough to win a Ref, but transferable pretty.much en masee to the SNP at any election, guaranteeing them a majority at Holyrood and most MPs in a GE..

I realise that voting Labour in Scotland now is pretty much akin to voting SSP...neither vote will lead to any electoral representation.

However the SNP appear rather stuck.

Either the Supreme Court comes through and a Ref is held next year all well and good...Let's say the result is a narrow No...the SNP carry on into the next Scottish election in 2026 still guaranteed around 44-47% and demanding another Ref, or...

Supreme Court says No....SNP enter the GE on a single platform....return 44-47% of the vote and a majority of seats and demand to negotiate Independece (based on less than half of the electorate)...Westminster (maybe) says No..onto the next Scottish election, repeat the cycle.

So, only positive outcome seems predicated on Supreme Court says Yes, and that 44-47 gets to over 50% with would you believe it.....Labour, Green and Lib Dem voters coming on board

Edited November 6, 2022 by Jedi

[Guest Jedi]

Or alternately, Supreme Court says No...Next GE returns a Tory govt...no chance of negotiation.

Next GE returns a Labour govt..maybe, just maybe, room for manoeuvre.

[Suspect Device]

The mishandling of the pandemic is what put me over the edge. I'd voted SNP all my life but grew to dislike them more the longer they were in power. Sturgeon's control freak nature really came out during the pandemic and I will only vote for them if the GE is a pretend referendum.

Apart from that, they can f**k off.

There were other reasons as well. The pandering to religious factions, the demonising of football fans, the minimum price for alcohol but the main thing was the pandemic.

[Highlandmagar]

7 hours ago, Jedi said:

They really aren't 'pandering to the racism' of Brexit to win an election..that assertion is based entirely on a single (albeit misguided) comment made by Rachel Reeves rather than the reality of party policy..(which shockingly on immigration pretty much matches what the SNP propose.

Tbh, for the current Labour Party to constantly raise 'objections' based on single said Rachel Reeves comment and sidelining one shadow cabinet member for standing on a picket line, and er...that's about it...is not bad compared to the objectiosn which can be levelled at the Tories and also the SNP.list above.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

8 hours ago, Jedi said:

They really aren't 'pandering to the racism' of Brexit to win an election..that assertion is based entirely on a single (albeit misguided) comment made by Rachel Reeves rather than the reality of party policy..(which shockingly on immigration pretty much matches what the SNP propose.

SURELY after such a public comment from a front bencher, Sir Keir would have publicly corrected such a glaring error. 

7 hours ago, Jedi said:

Or alternately, Supreme Court says No...Next GE returns a Tory govt...no chance of negotiation.

Next GE returns a Labour govt..maybe, just maybe, room for manoeuvre.

Yeah you've tried this before. It's a flat NO from either the Tories or Labour, so if you think any pro-indy voters at all are going to fall for Labour's latest set of lies, you're delusional. 

BTW you might want to look at posters like @Highlandmagar for an idea of Labour's problems. He was one of labour's strongest supporters on here around 2014 and for a good while beyond and now (IIRC) is a YES convert and wouldn't touch Labour with a 10 foot bargepole. I was similar, I just went to the YES side a bit further back. 

[williemillersmoustache]

It may just be unfortunate timing on the Starmtroopers part but functionally this means

1) They aren't interested in fixing the immediate staffing problem and won't if in power

2) They are happy for people to suffer in the "decade" or more it will take for domestric resource to catch up, if it ever will

3) They either are racists or they are only interested in chasing the votes of racists and it doesn't actually matter which

4) At the risk of repeating myself, f**k them, the amoral, unfit to lead a fucking conga, half tory b*****ds 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by williemillersmoustache

[BFTD]

I appreciate that some people have put actual thought into this, but the main reasons for most are:

• Rangers.
• Wee Nippy looks like Jimmy Krankie, and before that;
• Alex Salmond is fat, and has an old wife.

Good enough for me. SNP OOT.

[Dan Steele]

I'd never vote SNP if they started spouting right-wing pish, pandered to racists, were bereft of ideas that would help people in need and treating Scotland as not worthy of a second thought, y'know, like LabTories.

[sophia]

29 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

The mishandling of the pandemic is what put me over the edge. I'd voted SNP all my life but grew to dislike them more the longer they were in power. Sturgeon's control freak nature really came out during the pandemic and I will only vote for them if the GE is a pretend referendum.

Apart from that, they can f**k off.

There were other reasons as well. The pandering to religious factions, the demonising of football fans, the minimum price for alcohol but the main thing was the pandemic.

I'm not at all sure that you are entitled to conclude that the pandemic was mishandled by the Scottish Government.

In the context of a devolved administration with limited powers, my recollection is that decisions generally fell in line with those taken elsewhere.

Enquiries will conclude to what extent, if any, there are substantial lessons to be learned. In the meantime I'll recheck for objective conclusions on the c thread and debate there if necessary but perhaps for now we can be very happy indeed that vaccines are a thing.

I don't agree with the remainder of your polemic either and I certainly don't feel demonised.