Ben Doak

[Bing.McCrosby]

4 hours ago, Donathan said:

I’d like him in this squad because the two games are the trip to Cyprus, which you’d hope to have wrapped up before the last 15-20 minutes, and a friendly.

 

 

The next two squads involve a trip to Spain and then two crucial qualifiers in November (hopefully just for seeding purposes though). This September window is the ideal time to integrate him into the squad and see if he can push for a place on the plane next summer. 

Im not sure why he would have to wait to play until were comfortable against Cyprus.

Unless you think Scotland are stronger than Liverpool, and Cyprus are better than Chelsea.

[dundeefc1783]

I think this young boy is a very exciting prospect but I'm not sure we need to be getting him in the squad asap. I would be quite happy to see how he progresses at Liverpool over the next few months and take it from there. 

[No_Problemo]

He offers something that we just don’t have in terms of his explosive pace and directness. 

I would have him in the squad, but like others fine with whatever the manager decides. 

[Gordopolis]

I have a feeling that Clarke will resist selecting him for this squad. Priority is to get qualification secured, and I imagine he might see a Doak call-up bringing with it a bit of a circus due to his wunderkid status, and - should things go disastrously wrong - inviting all the usual dimwitted criticism like "Why didn't he start? Why was so and so who's not getting a game for a lesser club picked ahead of him?" 

The current squad is more than capable of sealing qualification, and the conservative approach would be to let the guys who brought us to the brink see us over the finish line (insert Kenneth Williams gif here).

All that said... GET HIM CALLED UP! 

[Kevin Finnerty]

27 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Im not sure why he would have to wait to play until were comfortable against Cyprus.

Unless you think Scotland are stronger than Liverpool, and Cyprus are better than Chelsea.

It's hardly a clear-cut piece of algebra like that in reality though, is it. There are going to be different factors at play between Klopp deciding to give meaningful league minutes to a player who's already been in the club set-up for over a year, has been gradually proving his mettle as a first-team player and has just had a very strong pre-season run, versus Clarke weighing up when best to deploy a new squad member into an extremely well-tuned, well-drilled team in the middle of a campaign that's still far from tied up. I do hope and expect that Doak will be on the squad list for September, but the question about when and how to bring him in isn't just about his individual talent level or how Liverpool are currently using him.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Kevin Finnerty

[Londonwell]

2 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

I have a feeling that Clarke will resist selecting him for this squad. Priority is to get qualification secured, and I imagine he might see a Doak call-up bringing with it a bit of a circus due to his wunderkid status, and - should things go disastrously wrong - inviting all the usual dimwitted criticism like "Why didn't he start? Why was so and so who's not getting a game for a lesser club picked ahead of him?" 

The current squad is more than capable of sealing qualification, and the conservative approach would be to let the guys who brought us to the brink see us over the finish line (insert Kenneth Williams gif here).

All that said... GET HIM CALLED UP! 

The other consideration for Clarke is where would he play him? We don’t play with wingers. I know the manager said that he thinks Doak can play through the middle but as far as I’m aware that’s a completely untested theory thus far. So you’re then looking at him playing the Ryan Christie role but perhaps naturally drifting out to the right side. It’s maybe a distraction Clarke feels that we can do without right now. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Londonwell

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

If Doak gets called up before Gauld I'll be writing an open letter of resignation to the SFA.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Barry Ferguson's Hat

[Gordopolis]

20 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

The other consideration for Clarke is where would he play him? We don’t play with wingers. I know the manager said that he thinks Doak can play through the middle but as far I’m aware that’s a completely untested theory thus far. So you’re then looking at him playing the Ryan Christie role but perhaps naturally drifting out to the right side. It’s maybe a distraction Clarke feels that we can do without right now. 

Good point. From yesterday's appearance vs Chelsea, he seemed pinned very high up on the right. I know that's probbaly where Klopp asked him to be, but it's not quite how Scotland operate (our wing backs being our width). Sure he could adapt to being more inside, or maybe even central, but I agree this isn't the time to start experimenting with player positions when we've motored to 4 wins in a row by using a settled squad and set of systems.

Still, GET HIM CALLED UP, CLARKE!!!

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, Kevin Finnerty said:

It's hardly a clear-cut piece of algebra like that in reality though, is it. There are going to be different factors at play between Klopp deciding to give meaningful league minutes to a player who's already been in the club set-up for over a year, has been gradually proving his mettle as a first-team player and has just had a very strong pre-season run, versus Clarke weighing up when best to deploy a new squad member into an extremely well-tuned, well-drilled team in the middle of a campaign that's still far from tied up. I do hope and expect that Doak will be on the squad list for September, but the question about when and how to bring him in isn't just about his individual talent level or how Liverpool are currently using him.

I think it is tbh, good players can easily play with good players. Say things dont go well in Cyprus and were bogged down struggling for a result, and he's not there to call on. It would be viewed as an error. We don't have anyone else who can run at players like him.

Clarkes already shown he can switch formation, so there would be an easy place for him on the right in a 4231.

If he doesn't get the call up its not the end of the world tho, I think we will win the game anyway.

[Captain_Sensible]

You’ve got to pick your best players. If Doak is good enough to come off the bench for Liverpool at Chelsea then he’s good enough to come off the bench for Scotland 

I’d be amazed if he’s not in the next squad 

[accies1874]

1 hour ago, Londonwell said:

The other consideration for Clarke is where would he play him? We don’t play with wingers. I know the manager said that he thinks Doak can play through the middle but as far as I’m aware that’s a completely untested theory thus far. So you’re then looking at him playing the Ryan Christie role but perhaps naturally drifting out to the right side. It’s maybe a distraction Clarke feels that we can do without right now. 

He probably could play in a front two or McGinn's role in the 3-4-3. He seems to be currently seen as a direct touchline winger, but I reckon he's capable of rolling players on the counter similar to McGinn and with a potentially better weighted pass at the end of it. Games like Cyprus at home showed how the two 10s in the 3-4-3 are able to drift wide which would suit him too. If coming off the bench, he'd likely play in a role similar to Armstrong against Norway, or even at RWB if chasing a game. So plenty of options if he does get called up. 

Also, I'm currently writing an algorithm that blocks anyone who uses this phrase between now and when/if Doak makes his debut.

Quote

If Doak is good enough to come off the bench for Liverpool at Chelsea then he’s good enough to come off the bench for Scotland 

PM me if interested. 

[Jives Miguel]

It's absolutely insane behaviour wanting a 17 year old with 30 mins of senior competitive football called into the squad. We have a good and settled squad, there's no need to rock the boat with dramatic pish like this. We don't even play with wingers. So you not only want to call up a 17 year old with no game experience, but also then play him in a position he's not familiar with? Which player out of McGinn, Armstring, Nisbet, Adams, Dykes and Christie is dropping out of the squad to enable this nonsense?

[Molotov]

3 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

It's absolutely insane behaviour wanting a 17 year old with 30 mins of senior competitive football called into the squad. We have a good and settled squad, there's no need to rock the boat with dramatic pish like this. We don't even play with wingers. So you not only want to call up a 17 year old with no game experience, but also then play him in a position he's not familiar with? Which player out of McGinn, Armstring, Nisbet, Adams, Dykes and Christie is dropping out of the squad to enable this nonsense?

Armstring!

He can go for sure.

Never heard of him.

[ArabFC]

Anybody checked to see if he has an Australian grannie?

[eez-eh]

36 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

It's absolutely insane behaviour wanting a 17 year old with 30 mins of senior competitive football called into the squad. We have a good and settled squad, there's no need to rock the boat with dramatic pish like this. We don't even play with wingers. So you not only want to call up a 17 year old with no game experience, but also then play him in a position he's not familiar with? Which player out of McGinn, Armstring, Nisbet, Adams, Dykes and Christie is dropping out of the squad to enable this nonsense?

I’m not clamouring for him to be called up but I just wanted to stop and laugh at you including Nisbet in that list.

[itzdrk]

43 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

It's absolutely insane behaviour wanting a 17 year old with 30 mins of senior competitive football called into the squad. We have a good and settled squad, there's no need to rock the boat with dramatic pish like this. We don't even play with wingers. So you not only want to call up a 17 year old with no game experience, but also then play him in a position he's not familiar with? Which player out of McGinn, Armstring, Nisbet, Adams, Dykes and Christie is dropping out of the squad to enable this nonsense?

Nisbet 

[Donathan]

1 hour ago, Jives Miguel said:

It's absolutely insane behaviour wanting a 17 year old with 30 mins of senior competitive football called into the squad. We have a good and settled squad, there's no need to rock the boat with dramatic pish like this. We don't even play with wingers. So you not only want to call up a 17 year old with no game experience, but also then play him in a position he's not familiar with? Which player out of McGinn, Armstring, Nisbet, Adams, Dykes and Christie is dropping out of the squad to enable this nonsense?

There’s no fixed size of the squad for qualifiers. Clarke can call up anything from 22-30 players. Obviously there’s limits on who can be named on the bench on match day but nothing preventing Doak being called into the camp and no one has to make way for him. 

[Captain_Sensible]

1 hour ago, Jives Miguel said:

It's absolutely insane behaviour wanting a 17 year old with 30 mins of senior competitive football called into the squad. We have a good and settled squad, there's no need to rock the boat with dramatic pish like this. We don't even play with wingers. So you not only want to call up a 17 year old with no game experience, but also then play him in a position he's not familiar with? Which player out of McGinn, Armstring, Nisbet, Adams, Dykes and Christie is dropping out of the squad to enable this nonsense?

None off them need to drop out.

However, Adams wasn’t in the last squad. Shankland was though.

Seeing as you’ve forgotten all about Shankland, presumably  you wouldn’t mind him dropping out?

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Captain_Sensible

[Captain_Sensible]

1 hour ago, accies1874 said:

Also, I'm currently writing an algorithm that blocks anyone who uses this phrase between now and when/if Doak makes his debut.

f Doak is good enough to come off the bench for Liverpool at Chelsea then he’s good enough to come off the bench for Scotland 

PM me if interested. 

Unless Liverpool are going to play Chelsea every week then it’ll be a pretty useless algorithm 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Captain_Sensible

[Jives Miguel]

1 hour ago, eez-eh said:

I’m not clamouring for him to be called up but I just wanted to stop and laugh at you including Nisbet in that list.

 

We play quite often with 2 up front, and if you want our 3rd choice striker to be dropped for a 17 year old winger, you're the only one to be pointed and laughed here my guy.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Jives Miguel