Which player had the biggest drop off after the amount of potential they initially showed?

[Bogbrush1903]

On 28/12/2022 at 12:28, btb said:

I throw Ricky Gillies into the debate, youngest player ever to play and score for us, highly rated but unfortunately tipped as AC Milan standard by Tony "Top6"Fitzpatrick, he seemed set for a move down south but failed to impress during a trial with Liverpool and came back to Saints. He moved to Aberdeen where he failed to shine and returned as a last day loan in March 2000 to help us get clinch the Division 1 title. He stood out (scoring 10 goals) in the mediocre squad that went straight back down in 2001 and was expected to move on that summer but it never happened.

He stood out at times back in Division 1 but when Gus MacPherson took over as manager he was replaced by the incoming Andy Millen in what became a more, erm, robust midfield - hard to argue against the decision but Gillies still looked skilful in the few sub appearances he made before moving onwards and downwards.

As I said all the skill but just lacking a combative edge.

The old Dons/Saints alliance in action again...

[Loonytoons]

On 24/12/2022 at 11:56, DA Baracus said:

Faisel El Bakhtoui.

 

Ripped up League 1, smashing in many goals and looking very good, even impressing in cup games against higher league opposition. There was hope he progress with us as we got promoted to the Championship but instead he signed for Dundee in the Premiership.

 

Apart from a couple of long range goals (which he apparently then tried to replicate in every game, unsuccessfully and much to the frustration of teammates and fans) he did little and was back on loan at us where he was abysmal.

 

He then moved to Queen of the South, did alright seemingly, then made up some pish about having to play in Morocco in order to be able to play for the national team, as if he was ever under consideration for that.

 

He's now playing in Serie D.

Called by someone on P&B as Falls-on-his-bahookie.  Diving git that spent more time on his arse and tried to make a career out of it.  Some nice touches but he was never destined to greater heights.

On 25/12/2022 at 00:20, DA Baracus said:

 

Chris Templeman was a highly promising youth player at East End. He was regular said to be the standout in reserve games and began to feature in the squad for the first team. However, he never made it in to the first team, only amassing a handful of appearances. He'd have a decent career further down the leagues though, including Morton paying a ludicrous transfer fee for him.

 

 

Sanny had a great touch and hold up play but a top speed of 'snail' really suggested he'd never make it big.  That transfer fee though, utterly mental and shows the money (or crazy debt) that was in Scotland at the time.  You'd struggle to see that sort of money changing hands now.

 

On 27/12/2022 at 18:39, LIVIFOREVER said:

Dunno if Rory McAllister qualifies for this, showed early potential at Inverness then dropped down to lower leagues, where he was scoring for fun at Brechin and Peterhead. Stuck with PT football to do his apprenticeship as a plumber, then was making as much money with plumbing & PT football than he would as a FT footballer, knocking back an offer from Dundee Utd. Football being a short career he pretty much had his future sorted when he was done playing football.

Seems a shame not seeing what his potential could've been had he stuck playing FT football and played in the top flight, big strong striker with plenty of goals in him. played 439 league games scoring 219 goals, and a total of 539 games scoring 278 goals.

 

Aberdeen were still trying to court him fairly recently I think.  Probably doesn't fall into the topic title though as he clearly had his career sights set elsewhere.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Loonytoons

[topcat(The most tip top)]

On 24/12/2022 at 08:19, Empty It said:

David Templeton, days after scoring against Liverpool signed for Rangers in the 4th division, waste of a young career.

He'd been playing 4th tier football for Stenhousemuir as an eighteen year old signing for rangers at 23 was literally setting his career back 5 years.

For Hearts, who were circling the financial plughole, cashing him in for the transfer fee made sense but Templeton must be left wondering if taking the path of least resistance was the right choice.

It wasn't a great move for Rangers either. They'd put him on a four year contract which would presumably have been expected to see him playing back in the top flight by the time he was hitting his peak years but the step down meant that his peak years were already behind him.

With players looking for a final big deal (the likes of Ian Black or Dean Shiels) this was a mutually beneficial arrangement and for a teenage Barrie Mckay (who had just arrived from Killie) it was a great opportunity but for Templeton it was just all wrong

 

[Empty It]

11 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

He'd been playing 4th tier football for Stenhousemuir as an eighteen year old signing for rangers at 23 was literally setting his career back 5 years.

For Hearts, who were circling the financial plughole, cashing him in for the transfer fee made sense but Templeton must be left wondering if taking the path of least resistance was the right choice.

It wasn't a great move for Rangers either. They'd put him on a four year contract which would presumably have been expected to see him playing back in the top flight by the time he was hitting his peak years but the step down meant that his peak years were already behind him.

With players looking for a final big deal (the likes of Ian Black or Dean Shiels) this was a mutually beneficial arrangement and for a teenage Barrie Mckay (who had just arrived from Killie) it was a great opportunity but for Templeton it was just all wrong

 

If I remember correctly they were also after Ryan McGowan who promptly told them where to go, even more reason to like the guy.

[AJF]

13 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

He'd been playing 4th tier football for Stenhousemuir as an eighteen year old signing for rangers at 23 was literally setting his career back 5 years.

For Hearts, who were circling the financial plughole, cashing him in for the transfer fee made sense but Templeton must be left wondering if taking the path of least resistance was the right choice.

It wasn't a great move for Rangers either. They'd put him on a four year contract which would presumably have been expected to see him playing back in the top flight by the time he was hitting his peak years but the step down meant that his peak years were already behind him.

With players looking for a final big deal (the likes of Ian Black or Dean Shiels) this was a mutually beneficial arrangement and for a teenage Barrie Mckay (who had just arrived from Killie) it was a great opportunity but for Templeton it was just all wrong

 

For what it’s worth, I don’t believe the standard of competition set Templeton back too much at all, it was his injury and fitness record.

He barely featured at all for us in his last couple of seasons. In the season we won promotion to the Premiership, he started the first couple of matches and then completely disappeared with a mysterious injury and rumours that he had a painkiller addiction, never to play for us again. I don’t think it was ever confirmed what was actually wrong with him.

Edited December 30, 2022 by AJF

[SGMilne]

In terms of players who were touted up at youth level and then never really made it at all, Islam Feruz (attitude) and Jordan Elfveron (injuries) come to mind. McConalogue is another shout as he was heralded as a youth sensation, did make some first team appearances but never looked anywhere near a player.

As a Utd fan, I'd agree with the McCunnie suggestion. He looked tremendous under Alex Smith then his career was irreparably damaged by falling out with Ian McCall. Greg Cameron was also tipped for stardom and then just vanished.

Were it not for injuries, both John Souttar, Lee Wilkie and Keith Watson would have achieved more.

Derek Riordan should have achieved more.

From a Football Manager perspective, I remember Gary Glen being massively touted by our Hearts researcher as a certainty to be a star, and that never happened.

As a Scotland fan, I thought we were sorted with Jordan Rhodes coming through, considering his scoring record earlier in his career, but alas not.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, SGMilne said:

From a Football Manager perspective, I remember Gary Glen being massively touted by our Hearts researcher as a certainty to be a star, and that never happened.

Glen had a trial at Man Utd as a 16 year old which might've contributed to those expectations. Another player who had a Man Utd trial at that age and around that era was Craig Storie. He might be a fit for this thread although I don't know if there were ever expectations of him at Aberdeen or not.

[Juantwothree]

50 minutes ago, SGMilne said:

In terms of players who were touted up at youth level and then never really made it at all, Islam Feruz (attitude) and Jordan Elfveron (injuries) come to mind. McConalogue is another shout as he was heralded as a youth sensation, did make some first team appearances but never looked anywhere near a player.

As a Utd fan, I'd agree with the McCunnie suggestion. He looked tremendous under Alex Smith then his career was irreparably damaged by falling out with Ian McCall. Greg Cameron was also tipped for stardom and then just vanished.

Were it not for injuries, both John Souttar, Lee Wilkie and Keith Watson would have achieved more.

Derek Riordan should have achieved more.

From a Football Manager perspective, I remember Gary Glen being massively touted by our Hearts researcher as a certainty to be a star, and that never happened.

As a Scotland fan, I thought we were sorted with Jordan Rhodes coming through, considering his scoring record earlier in his career, but alas not.

Greg Cameron grew up in the next street from me. He was seriously scouted from Chelsea at the start for the Mourinho era. Ended up working in the Michelin, f**k knows where he is now

[topcat(The most tip top)]

30 minutes ago, AJF said:

For what it’s worth, I don’t believe the standard of competition set Templeton back too much at all, it was his injury and fitness record.

He barely featured at all for us in his last couple of seasons. In the season we won promotion to the Premiership, he started the first couple of matches and then completely disappeared with a mysterious injury and rumours that he had a painkiller addiction, never to play for us again. I don’t think it was ever confirmed what was actually wrong with him.

You will have seen more of him I guess but while it won't be the only reason his career never really recovered dropping down to the seaside leagues certainly can't have helped 

Ultimately this whole thread is going to be full of unanswerable questions along the lines of "What if things had been different"

 

[Grangemouth Bairn]

20 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Was it him who presented an episode of Top of the Pops?

He did indeed.

 

[The Marly]

Back in our Muirton Park days, we had a real prospect called McCoist. Totally wasted his career when he left Saints. 

[Bogbrush1903]

On 27/12/2022 at 12:13, Dundee Hibernian said:

Maybe it's the psychology which causes the dip in levels for some of these players, rather than that being a problem result of the players not making and maintaining the grade?

I'll agree that it must mess with the head not reaching the target which the player thought attainable, but perhaps it's not the ability which dissapates, rather than the mental toughness to make and maintain the top grade.

I think the player must have single-minded focus to reach the top. Take Garry O'Connor for example, He probably actually over-achieved considering his seemingly goldfish like attention span and was been handed lots of cash that he would've never received in any other walk of life. When I saw the rotund striker playing for Selkirk at Nairn County it seemed his natural home.

Then a 16 year old like Harry Cochrane or Fraser Fyvie does well against one of the Gruesomes and suddenly the media thinks the sky is the limit. But a 16 year old can be single-minded (just about) on his football whilst the 20 year old version of the player could get distracted by external factors.

I think there are various elements that decide how far a player can go including ability, good pros around him, single-minded to achieve, desire, luck and good managers (and probably quire rare, but a good agent).

Most of the players on this thread reached their level, someone can, on occasion, suffer serious injury that can cause a major setback but that's usually because the player hasn't the necessary desire to fight back.

[Derry Alli]

2 hours ago, SGMilne said:

Were it not for injuries, both John Souttar, Lee Wilkie and Keith Watson would have achieved more.

1 hour ago, Juantwothree said:

Greg Cameron grew up in the next street from me. He was seriously scouted from Chelsea at the start for the Mourinho era. Ended up working in the Michelin, f**k knows where he is now

Too much time on the gear. Last I heard he was in Dover Feulling.

[Drew Brees]

Rocco Vata

[Big Gus]

3 hours ago, SGMilne said:

 

Were it not for injuries, both John Souttar, Lee Wilkie and Keith Watson would have achieved more.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I was at the Youth Cup Final around 2005-ish and Simon Ferry looked like an adult playing with kids, so to speak.

I know he had a long spell out injured not long after that, and ended up having a decent career, but I wonder how much he lost with those injuries.

[Derry Alli]

57 minutes ago, Dirty Sanchez said:

I was at the Youth Cup Final around 2005-ish and Simon Ferry looked like an adult playing with kids, so to speak.

Best player I've ever played with. Some of the stuff he could do was unreal. Always felt a twinge of sadness how his career panned out. By all accounts a great family man.

There was another who was at Rangers. Then Dundee, Arbroath. He was some talent as well but a head the ba who ended up booted from every club and banned from Amateur as well for battering a ref with a boot.

[SGMilne]

1 hour ago, Big Gus said:

 

 

Wrote it as 'both John Souttar and Keith Watson..." then came back in last second to add Lee Wilkie after I'd written the rest of the post.

Consider me humiliated 

[Stylish Kid]

I always take the crop of young Dundee United players at the turn of the century (McConalogue, Easton, etc) with a pinch of salt because whilst they were capped a lot at U-21 level, if memory serves me correctly, Alex Smith managed both teams....

[ArabFC]

1 hour ago, Stylish Kid said:

I always take the crop of young Dundee United players at the turn of the century (McConalogue, Easton, etc) with a pinch of salt because whilst they were capped a lot at U-21 level, if memory serves me correctly, Alex Smith managed both teams....

McConalogue was hyped up as the next big thing from the youth ranks, but never really showed anything in the first team. Easton was always just a good player, nothing more.