Insecurity FC v The Champions (2nd January 2023)

[AJF]

16 minutes ago, Squonk said:

Not sure how it could make things any more unworkable than it already is. Far be it from me to stand up for the arse cheek from the east end of Glasgow but I remember watching a match in sheer disbelief as wee 'Fredo Morelos, Colombia's angriest man, kicked Broonie in the nuts (he was going for the ball I suppose) and later deliberately trampled over the back of a prostrate Celtic defender, plus another serious foul that escapes me at the moment.

I can't remember for certainty which of the masonic brethren was refereeing, probably John Beaton, but he could barely bring himself to award a free kick, never mind the yellow or red card that was deserved. 

I'd long considered that refereeing errors and inconsistencies were purely down to ineptitude or pressure from a baying crowd, but I had my eyes opened during that match. The referee was cheating in plain view.

Having neutral officials, even if necessary those of a slightly inferior quality, is infinitely more palatable than employing those who may be partial to being partial.

At what point does it change from poor refereeing to cheating? Who determines that?

I could give you many examples of decisions in favour of Celtic in derby matches. Does that mean those referees were also cheating?

ETA: The claims from Monday's match also have to be looked at with VAR in mind as well. If Celtic fans are claiming the Goldson handball wasn't given because Beaton is a Rangers fan, does this also mean the VAR on the day was also a Rangers fan for failing to ask him to have a second look, suggesting he change his mind?

Edited January 5, 2023 by AJF

[Henrik's tongue]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

At what point does it change from poor refereeing to cheating? Who determines that?

I could give you many examples of decisions in favour of Celtic in derby matches. Does that mean those referees were also cheating?

Is John Beaton responsible for any of them?

Asking for a friend 

[Sortmeout]

Does anyone know how many trophies Celtic need to win before they drop this conspiracy theory nonsense? Is it literally going to have to be all of them? 

[Drew Brees]

2 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

Does anyone know how many trophies Celtic need to win before they drop this conspiracy theory nonsense? Is it literally going to have to be all of them? 

I think it’s better calling it out while winning rather than coming across as a bad loser, though I think they should pick their battles wisely, complaining about the ref from Mondays game is just nonsense. 

[Squonk]

9 minutes ago, AJF said:

At what point does it change from poor refereeing to cheating? Who determines that?

Crawford Allan of the SFA is the current incumbent who should determine what is poor refereeing and what is cheating. I've never known any Scottish match official cited for cheating though, and that's part of my point. Roy Orbison and Stevie Wonder could see that John Beaton bent over backwards to help the club he follow follows in the game I referenced, but nothing was done about it and nothing ever will be. 

[gannonball]

36 minutes ago, Squonk said:

Not sure how it could make things any more unworkable than it already is. Far be it from me to stand up for the arse cheek from the east end of Glasgow but I remember watching a match in sheer disbelief as wee 'Fredo Morelos, Colombia's angriest man, kicked Broonie in the nuts (he was going for the ball I suppose) and later deliberately trampled over the back of a prostrate Celtic defender, plus another serious foul that escapes me at the moment.

I can't remember for certainty which of the masonic brethren was refereeing, probably John Beaton, but he could barely bring himself to award a free kick, never mind the yellow or red card that was deserved. 

I'd long considered that refereeing errors and inconsistencies were purely down to ineptitude or pressure from a baying crowd, but I had my eyes opened during that match. The referee was cheating in plain view.

Having neutral officials, even if necessary those of a slightly inferior quality, is infinitely more palatable than employing those who may be partial to being partial.

Pretty sure that game was Beaton. That game and years ago when Robbie Keane got kicked to f*ck by Bougherra are really the only two games where I really have questioned the referees impartiality this side of the millennium for derbies.

Edited January 5, 2023 by gannonball

[AJF]

26 minutes ago, Squonk said:

Crawford Allan of the SFA is the current incumbent who should determine what is poor refereeing and what is cheating. I've never known any Scottish match official cited for cheating though, and that's part of my point. Roy Orbison and Stevie Wonder could see that John Beaton bent over backwards to help the club he follow follows in the game I referenced, but nothing was done about it and nothing ever will be. 

That's part of my point though, what you deem to be cheating could genuinely just be sheer incompetence.

I remember when we beat Celtic 2-1 at Celtic Park in 2019, Kevin Clancy was absolutely abysmal for us.

He awarded Celtic a penalty for a shirt pull at a corner. He then failed to award us a penalty for a worse shirt pull at a corner of our own. He failed to send of Bolingoli for a blatant second yellow card offence. There was a potential red card offence for Julien that went in Celtic's favour and was waved away (although, that one was a bit less obvious) and to top it off, he allowed Celtic's goal to stand despite the fact that the ball went in directly after striking Edouard's hand. I also forgot to add that he failed to send Christie off for hitting Morelos in the nuts (which he later got a retrospective ban for).

Everything that could've went against us that day did. He was genuinely shocking. Some of the decisions were inexplicable. Does that mean that Clancy was cheating? No.

Edited January 5, 2023 by AJF

[Jacksgranda]

19 hours ago, bennett said:

 

It's a New Year, but same old Cheating

Postby Joe O'Rourke » Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:12 pm

I don’t think any Celtic supporter was expecting a straight forward football match on Monday afternoon. I certainly believed that with the match officials appointed, it was an absolute certainty that there would be contentious decisions, and we would be on the wrong end of those decisions, I doubt any Bookie in the country would have given you odds on anything different happening.

I’ve said right from the introduction of VAR that it could only succeed with honest people operating the system, I think inside the refereeing fraternity in Scotland there is a distinct lack of honesty. Once the officials were announced you knew we were up against it, John Beaton needs no introduction to the Celtic Support, the same can be said of Willie Collum, I know the reason behind Beaton’s decision making, but Collum is a strange one, I suppose the easy explanation is career advancement, if you don’t toe the party line, you don’t get the big games, and thus the big money.

Of course these pair of “CHEATS” have bosses, step forward Ian Maxwell and Crawford Allan, can you remember them standing beside you on the Jungle at the old Celtic Park, No? well, I’m exactly the same, I’m pretty sure they would be flying their scarf at a different ground, one in Govan. The very fact that they appointed Beaton as match official says it all, it’s like saying, we’re in charge, and there is nothing you can do about it, I’m pretty certain Michael Nicholson will have been on the phone this morning telling them something different.

The two major talking points were the penalty awarded against us, and the one denied to us. I thought at first Starfelt had mistimed his tackle, but on seeing a replay, I think Sakala kicks Starfelt, so no penalty. The Goldson handball looked a stonewall penalty, but not given. You have to ask, why didn’t Collum tell Beaton to go to the monitor on both occasions? Just exactly what are the rules? We have been asking for many years, for match officials to come out and explain contentious decisions, why do they stubbornly refuse? The essence of any Refereeing Department should be Transparency, Honesty, and Accountability, we have none of those in Scotland.

I’ve been of the opinion since they reduced our allocation that we should have said that’s not acceptable, I get there are some supporters who think different, let me tell you this, it’s not a nice experience, it’s bearable if you win, but the whole experience in general is definitely poisonous, and nowhere near as wholesome as the atmosphere at Celtic Park.

 

 

 

[VincentGuerin]

36 minutes ago, Squonk said:

Crawford Allan of the SFA is the current incumbent who should determine what is poor refereeing and what is cheating. I've never known any Scottish match official cited for cheating though, and that's part of my point. Roy Orbison and Stevie Wonder could see that John Beaton bent over backwards to help the club he follow follows in the game I referenced, but nothing was done about it and nothing ever will be. 

Give us an honest answer here. How many Scottish matches do you watch per season that don't involve Celtic or Rangers?

[Henrik's tongue]

This is all very well, but I am specifically talking about Beaton. Not every ref. There’s one every so often. Mike McCurry springs to mind.

[Jinky67]

2 hours ago, Sortmeout said:

Does anyone know how many trophies Celtic need to win before they drop this conspiracy theory nonsense? Is it literally going to have to be all of them? 

So because we are successful we have to accept a shit standard of officiating and the resulting inconsistency?

Very good

[RandomGuy.]

20 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

So because we are successful we have to accept a shit standard of officiating and the resulting inconsistency?

Very good

Tbf theres a difference between saying refs are shite and saying refs are biased.

Im not reading this thread so im not accusing you of anything, but a Celtic account on Twitter thats constantly recommended to me because of someone i follow is obsessed with a conspiracy. They get a qualified ref to watch highlights of every game, and the full game for Rangers and Celtic, and then create a "true" league table based on fabricated results if decisions were made fairly.

[The Saintee]

OF fans should try following a diddy team for a bit to see just how bad/biased/influenced a ref can be.

Especially when your diddy team is playing one of the OF.

 

 

[Jinky67]

13 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tbf theres a difference between saying refs are shite and saying refs are biased.

Im not reading this thread so im not accusing you of anything, but a Celtic account on Twitter thats constantly recommended to me because of someone i follow is obsessed with a conspiracy. They get a qualified ref to watch highlights of every game, and the full game for Rangers and Celtic, and then create a "true" league table based on fabricated results if decisions were made fairly.

I thinks it’s almost impossible to suggest there isn’t to a degree some unconscious bias as most of these guys were football fans way before they were an official.
One of my mates who I’ve known since Primary 1 is a linesman and ironically had a howler against Celtic recently so much so he was getting pelters on twitter for being corrupt so I know it’s difficult for them when they need to make a split second call but there are things such as replicating referee comms like in rugby would help fans understand why decisions are made instead of radio silence.

 

 

 

[bennett]

1 hour ago, Jinky67 said:

So because we are successful we have to accept a shit standard of officiating and the resulting inconsistency?

Very good

Poor wee celtic.

[AJF]

It’s mental all of this is coming out after it’s been widely reported the referee got the Sakala incident correct and there also seems to be split opinion on whether Goldson’s was handball or not with IFAB rules there that support it not being a foul (depending on your interpretation of it). It was hardly a clear cut decision.

[Derry Alli]

18 minutes ago, AJF said:

It’s mental all of this is coming out after it’s been widely reported the referee got the Sakala incident correct and there also seems to be split opinion on whether Goldson’s was handball or not with IFAB rules there that support it not being a foul (depending on your interpretation of it). It was hardly a clear cut decision.

It makes the thread title all the sweeter.

[Henrik's tongue]

Yep. In a world where we have corrupt employees from Policeman through to factory workers - even some players in the actual games -  there is no chance a single referee could be corrupt. No sir. Not a chance. Squeaky clean. Every single one of them.

[Dons_1988]

This is such a good read 

[AJF]

1 hour ago, Henrik's tongue said:

Yep. In a world where we have corrupt employees from Policeman through to factory workers - even some players in the actual games -  there is no chance a single referee could be corrupt. No sir. Not a chance. Squeaky clean. Every single one of them.

Do you believe you never got awarded a penalty due to a corrupt referee who was then aided by the VAR who was also corrupt? Or is it possible that it wasn’t a clear cut decision?