PSJ.84 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 19 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Who'd have thought playing 11 players in their best, natural, positions would lead to a better performance all round than playing half the team out of position to fit a shape nobody plays well in. Carey needs punted for that Crawford esque performance (dont track runners/sprint 40 yards out of position to "press" the opposing keeper so it looks like youre trying but really youre just trying to get an excuse for not marking someone). At least Crawfords never faked an injury to avoid seeing the ball though, cowardly as f**k and some sympathy with Davidson that hes the type of personality hes hung his hat on. There was one instant yesterday of him giving the ball away then running 20-ish yards to chase it back, ball is then obviously played around him as he’s pressing on his own and he’s taken out the game. Livi break but I can’t remember if it came to anything or not. Stuff like that tends to happen when you force players into playing positions they’re not used to/comfortable with. Will the manager see that? Will he f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 17 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said: There was one instant yesterday of him giving the ball away then running 20-ish yards to chase it back, ball is then obviously played around him as he’s pressing on his own and he’s taken out the game. Livi break but I can’t remember if it came to anything or not. Stuff like that tends to happen when you force players into playing positions they’re not used to/comfortable with. Will the manager see that? Will he f**k. It’s what happens when you continually play players who are in horrendous form over an extended period while benching guys who have shown up well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 16 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said: Stuff like that tends to happen when you force players into playing positions they’re not used to/comfortable with. Will the manager see that? Will he f**k. Hes been trying to play two attacking midfielders in this shape for well over 12 months, Crawford/Wotherspoon v Dundee at McDiarmid in the 3-0(?) Win the first instance that comes to to mind, and hasnt realised that we'll never have a holding midfielder to make that work for any length of time, so i imagine he'll come back to it eventually. Assume we're in for a few games of him just chucking shit at the wall again hoping something sticks and he can run with that for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 42 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Who'd have thought playing 11 players in their best, natural, positions would lead to a better performance all round than playing half the team out of position to fit a shape nobody plays well in. 18 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said: Stuff like that tends to happen when you force players into playing positions they’re not used to/comfortable with. Will the manager see that? Will he f**k. This is Callum Davidson. This is exactly why we all want him to go. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widge Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 I think Carey has a lot to offer if he’s played in the correct position and is in form. However he’s hopelessly out of form right now and being played in positions where it only shows is issues rather than supports his ability. As others have said, it’s absolutely no surprise we looked better with 2 actual central midfielders playing. Also the decision to keep Gordon on over Mitchell was baffling once again. Gordon isn’t fit and it showed numerous times yesterday when Anderson got the better of him time and time again. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 46 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said: Davie has said in the past that when someone comes into the team and plays well then it's their place to lose. Can't exactly turn round and drop guys who played so well on the last game. I agree that Holt and maybe Pittman would be first choice but that just shows how strong our squad is in midfield that we have guys like then to come off the bench. On Boyes, I really like him. He shows a lot of promise for only being 21(?) but Ayo and Fitzwater are our best CB pairing. Morgan hadn't really done anything wrong to warrant being dropped though so I get why he's been starting. He didn't cover himself in glory yesterday at either goal so can see us returning to the original pairing for Wednesday night. Ayo was apparently carrying a knock after the Motherwell game as well so that might also be contributing to him not starting games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ.84 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 27 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Hes been trying to play two attacking midfielders in this shape for well over 12 months, Crawford/Wotherspoon v Dundee at McDiarmid in the 3-0(?) Win the first instance that comes to to mind, and hasnt realised that we'll never have a holding midfielder to make that work for any length of time, so i imagine he'll come back to it eventually. Assume we're in for a few games of him just chucking shit at the wall again hoping something sticks and he can run with that for a while. 3-1 I believe with Sweeney scoring from a corner relatively late on. Not that it would’ve made any difference as we’d be playing the same shape regardless, but it’s quite disappointing he’s stumbled upon that 4-4-2 and and our next two games are Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 28 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said: 3-1 I believe with Sweeney scoring from a corner relatively late on. Not that it would’ve made any difference as we’d be playing the same shape regardless, but it’s quite disappointing he’s stumbled upon that 4-4-2 and and our next two games are Rangers. My thoughts as well. It’s annoying as there’s no way we’re playing 4-4-2 against either of them, and by the time the next non-OF game comes round it’ll be forgotten about. So many of our problems the past month (and longer)stem from being outnumbered and outplayed in midfield. The second half yesterday maybe gives a slightly false impression as Livi were cruising, but we got hold of the ball and dictated play for spells, and we had players up in support of the front 2. In the first half we were forced to try long balls down the channel all the time as we couldn’t play through them. Bringing on Bair at 2-3 didn’t do us any favours. Clark was poor but he at least challenges (and sometimes wins) headers. Bair seemed to hide behind the centre backs for a couple of crosses and barely challenged at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Im glad its Rangers next, and he has to actually think about what to do rather than just blindly playing 4-4-2 with the 11 whos started the 2nd half. Until he learns to adapt to his squad and opponents, every week, then we'll go nowhere. You cant just load a tactic, play whoever scored highest on WhoScored the previous week somewhere in your predetermined set up and hope for the best if you want to achieve something. He got obscenely lucky that Tommy Wright built a side to play his shape, while moulding the likes of Kerr and McCann to play it, when he took over. Even then he destroyed the prolific front 2 of Hendry/May and also ignored TWs plan of Rooney at RWB for 6 months while he tried to convert him into a CB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentino Bolognese Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: My thoughts as well. It’s annoying as there’s no way we’re playing 4-4-2 against either of them, and by the time the next non-OF game comes round it’ll be forgotten about. So many of our problems the past month (and longer)stem from being outnumbered and outplayed in midfield. The second half yesterday maybe gives a slightly false impression as Livi were cruising, but we got hold of the ball and dictated play for spells, and we had players up in support of the front 2. In the first half we were forced to try long balls down the channel all the time as we couldn’t play through them. Bringing on Bair at 2-3 didn’t do us any favours. Clark was poor but he at least challenges (and sometimes wins) headers. Bair seemed to hide behind the centre backs for a couple of crosses and barely challenged at all. Livi maybe sat back a little at the start of the 2nd but man for man they were giving us absolutely no time at all on the ball in any position. It was clear to everyone that we needed an extra body in midfield and that Livi would take advantage of us playing the back 5 to load it up and dominate. Which they did. Someone might have pointed this out to our manager so he changed shape but of course it's the easiest thing in the world for Martindale to take off a striker and restore the balance. Normally agree with you Paulo but I think you're being harsh on Theo. I think he's come on leaps and bounds in using his size and winning in the air. In fact I think he won a lot more than he lost yesterday, and I'd go as far as to say he looked OK. He's come on a huge amount since joining and if Kane wasn't injured I'm sure he'd be doing well on a loan spell right now. Whether Clark was the right sub though is I guess different point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 I actually thought Bair did well with his hold up play and using his strength that way yesterday. His first touch was decent. But he’s not a goal threat at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 He does okay on the ground, but felt whenever a hopeful cross was put into the box he rarely got near it. He did win a header on near the edge of the box that I remember. A tough game to come on in, but would just be looking for him to get on the end of most things and terrorise their centre backs making life as uncomfortable as possible. I don’t think he did enough of that. Probably harsh singling him out as May or Clark weren’t great overall either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Bairs still inexperienced, hes 23 but im not sure hes even played 100 senior games yet. Ideally he'd have been given a run early on, especially as he seems relatively prolific in friendlies, but he was the victim of the managers obsession with the 5-2-3 at the start of the season (genuinely, is Kane the only CF we've had whos even looked semi-competent in the mess of a shape?) and then we launched money at United for Nicky Clark and made him one of the highest paid players at the club, so that was Bairs chance gone. He clearly needs to be playing regularly football. Is he maybe too humble/nice for his own good? Like i get the impression Mahon/Vertainen were launched because they refused to let their career fester on our bench under a manager they dont trust, while Bair seems like hes willing to bide him time and hope he gets in. If i was him and id be pushing for some form of move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ.84 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Bairs still inexperienced, hes 23 but im not sure hes even played 100 senior games yet. Ideally he'd have been given a run early on, especially as he seems relatively prolific in friendlies, but he was the victim of the managers obsession with the 5-2-3 at the start of the season (genuinely, is Kane the only CF we've had whos even looked semi-competent in the mess of a shape?) and then we launched money at United for Nicky Clark and made him one of the highest paid players at the club, so that was Bairs chance gone. He clearly needs to be playing regularly football. Is he maybe too humble/nice for his own good? Like i get the impression Mahon/Vertainen were launched because they refused to let their career fester on our bench under a manager they dont trust, while Bair seems like hes willing to bide him time and hope he gets in. If i was him and id be pushing for some form of move. Sometimes get that impression when he’s on the pitch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn Hooch Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Anytime I've seen Bair play for you I've seen similarities with Dykes. Raw, powerful and a handful for defenders with his size and strength. He does seem to lack that killer instinct though. Was impressed with Phillips when he came on for you yesterday. Saw him on the touchline and thought he looked like a barrel but he changed the game for you as he seemed like your only midfielder that was willing to get his foot on the ball and do something with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Harsh blaming Shamal for the goals, he makes the initial saves, first was from close range where he throws himself to block it and the ball hits his arm, then makes a 2nd attempt on the ground but the ball goes to another St Johnstone player, that three times our defenders haven't got to the ball, 2nd goal is an outstretch save that again goes to a St Johnstone player for a tap in. Don't think he can be blamed for either. Stephen Kelly is giving us what Pittman used to, playing further forward and scoring goals, Bradley is giving us some good link up play too, they've made a big difference to our attack the last couple of games. Not sure it's a big gap between Holt/Pittman & Omeonga/Sean Kelly, all 4 have been outstanding in games, Omeonga is likely to pick up a booking because he puts in so many challenges so made sense subbing him for Holt or Pittman, at that stage of the game it was good to have such energetic pressing midfielders on the bench to bring on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 19 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said: Anytime I've seen Bair play for you I've seen similarities with Dykes. Raw, powerful and a handful for defenders with his size and strength. He does seem to lack that killer instinct though. Was impressed with Phillips when he came on for you yesterday. Saw him on the touchline and thought he looked like a barrel but he changed the game for you as he seemed like your only midfielder that was willing to get his foot on the ball and do something with it. Phillips was great, and hes never let us down. Hes under 30 though, and hasnt played many games, so starting him more than once every month is simply out of the question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 30 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said: Anytime I've seen Bair play for you I've seen similarities with Dykes. Raw, powerful and a handful for defenders with his size and strength. He does seem to lack that killer instinct though. Was impressed with Phillips when he came on for you yesterday. Saw him on the touchline and thought he looked like a barrel but he changed the game for you as he seemed like your only midfielder that was willing to get his foot on the ball and do something with it. Dont know how to word this, but Dykes seemed like an absolute c**t on the pitch, Bair doesnt. Bair doesnt throw people about/bully folk so his size doesnt feel like as much of an advantage as it should be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Good point made by Callum Carson. Quote Callum Carson @CallumCarsonWLC· 16h Livi put that display in without Cristian Montano, Ayo Obileye, Jason Holt, Scott Pittman and Joel Nouble in the starting line-up today. That's arguably half their 'strongest' side. The strength in depth that Martindale has been able to get in that squad is tremendous. Back to back wins where 5 of our normal starting 11 haven't played/started, scoring 6 goals where before we struggled to score more than one a game. Also both were away from home. Gives Martindale something to think about for our next game, isn't so easy guessing his starting line up just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn Hooch Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 23 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said: Good point made by Callum Carson. Back to back wins where 5 of our normal starting 11 haven't played/started, scoring 6 goals where before we struggled to score more than one a game. Also both were away from home. Gives Martindale something to think about for our next game, isn't so easy guessing his starting line up just now. I was just saying this myself. Our squad depth if outstanding for being on such a small budget. Just having a think about our depth and the positions our guys have played this season and it's apparent that Martindale likes flexible players who can perform in a number of positions. That's allowed us to have a strong squad with a small number of players. Martindale is genuinely working wonders. GK - Shamal/Ivan/Hamilton RB - Devlin/Brandon/Cancar CB - Fitzwater/Ayo/Boyes/Cancar/Parkes/Se Kelly LB - Montano/Penrice/Longridge/Cancar/Se Kelly CM - Holt/Pittman/Omeonga/St Kelly/Se Kelly/Shinnie/Penrice LW - Nouble/St Kelly/Shinnie/Montano/Penrice/Bahamboula RW - Bradley/Bahamboula/Nouble/Brandon ST - Anderson/Guthrie/Gonca.....nah i'm not even gonna include him 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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