The Very Meh Humza Yousaf Thread.

[lichtgilphead]

8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

He could have had two bites at the Moral High Ground cherry: 1. Keep making it all about GRR or 2. Suspend the SC route for a period of time to negotiate a compromise.  Either option would have been to his credit and would allow him to retain most all-party support.  That's what grown-ups would have done.

He's now made it not about GRR and we're back to corrosive Sturgeonism.

Exactly how was he supposed to do this? The Scottish Parliament had a last possible date of April 17th to decide whether or not to seek a judicial review. After that, it would have been time-barred.

If HY had announced a suspension, you would have been on here telling us that he was exceeding his powers.

[StellarHibee]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

That's that Q answered - to no one's surprise.

I see that with the loss of their auditors and the possibility of not having the audit done by May 31st the WM Nats may lose their Short money.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23449248.snp-finance-woes-deepen-auditors-leave-partys-westminster-group/

Given that Flynn was appointed WM leader in December, surely he must have known they didn't have an auditor.  And if he knew, it's barely credible that Humza didn't.

Yousaf is obviously lying. But why wouldn't he? It wouldn't make any sense from his perspective or the party for him to come out and say that he knew about these things. Unless it can be conclusively proven that he knew anything, he's going to keep on saying that he doesn't whenever quizzed by the brit media. I don't like it, but I can see from his point of view why he would do this.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Is the mewling about the cost of going to court over the GRR not fucking ridiculous.

if the govt can't goafford to take a matter to court then we are a complete shambles of a country.

[StellarHibee]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

If he had said, "We'll try and work with WM over x months to try and find an acceptable solution" I'd have applauded him.

That's a good one. WM doesn't work with the Scottish Government. They don't even bother to consult the Scottish Government over legislation in England that overreaches into Scotland.

[StellarHibee]

2 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Is the mewling about the cost of going to court over the GRR not fucking ridiculous.

if the govt can't goafford to take a matter to court then we are a complete shambles of a country.

The fact that it even has to be taken to court shows what a shambles of a country we are.

[The_Kincardine]

16 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Exactly how was he supposed to do this? The Scottish Parliament had a last possible date of April 17th to decide whether or not to seek a judicial review. After that, it would have been time-barred.

If HY had announced a suspension, you would have been on here telling us that he was exceeding his powers.

It's very simple.  Announce the SC action and state that your preference is for a negotiated compromise and set out terms for it.

Instead, he's gone full  Sturgeon.

[The_Kincardine]

11 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

The fact that it even has to be taken to court shows what a shambles of a country we are.

What?  Having the option of a court reviewing the actions of government is shambolic?  It isn't.  The fact that the SC can overrule WM is a good thing and the opposite of shambolic.

Sadly, it's Humza here who is making a baws of it.   To no one's surprise.

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I'm sorry but are folk trying to genuinely debate with that spiteful, trolling bigot?

Dear lord, just laugh at him and move on

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

15 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

I'm sorry but are folk trying to genuinely debate with that spiteful, trolling bigot?

Dear lord, just laugh at him and move on

He's a bit cranky after the police took away the golly dolls from his local pub.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

10 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

He's a bit cranky after the police took away the golly dolls from his local pub.

Hadn't considered that angle tbh 

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

It's very simple.  Announce the SC action and state that your preference is for a negotiated compromise and set out terms for it.

Instead, he's gone full  Sturgeon.

"Crackpot Ideas" thread for this pish. In this event, you would have accused HY of dictating terms.

When the Scottish Government tried to negotiate, WM refused to play ball. 

[Blue Brazil Forever]

5 hours ago, ScotiaNostra said:

Humza doesnt seem to have been aware of anything

The SNP FM goes from " I can't remember  to " I didn't know ". Nobody telt him ?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

 

 

[alta-pete]

If ever there was the requirement for the edification of the ‘too wee, too poor, too stupid’ strapline, the SNP have nailed it this last couple of months…

[StellarHibee]

7 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

What?  Having the option of a court reviewing the actions of government is shambolic?  It isn't.

Your Conservative Party seems to think that it is. Just look at their Judicial Review and Courts bill which allows them to overrule court decisions that they don't like.

[vikingTON]

13 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Is the mewling about the cost of going to court over the GRR not fucking ridiculous.

if the govt can't goafford to take a matter to court then we are a complete shambles of a country.

It's not a question of can but should. Spending money and yet more political capital on a fringe issue of no priority to the vast majority of the Scottish people is a terrible look. The SG is not exactly free of other issues it could be tackling in society right now and will be punished by the electorate for showing the 'wrong' priorities. 

[StellarHibee]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's not a question of can but should. Spending money and yet more political capital on a fringe issue of no priority to the vast majority of the Scottish people is a terrible look.

There have been numerous "fringe issues" over the past century, such as giving black people the right to vote or allowing gay people to get married. The only terrible look here is the UK Government forcing the Scottish Government to spend money on a court case in yet another effort to halt progress.

[vikingTON]

44 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

There have been numerous "fringe issues" over the past century, such as giving black people the right to vote or allowing gay people to get married. The only terrible look here is the UK Government forcing the Scottish Government to spend money on a court case in yet another effort to halt progress.

The SG isn't 'forced' to do any such thing. The onus is now on the UK Government to square gender recognition with the Equality Act (a reserved issue) and everyone should be wished good luck dealing with that toxic mess. 

Only fanatics and the fruitloop Greens believe this to be a suitable hill for the SG to die on. 

[StellarHibee]

Just now, virginton said:

The SG isn't 'forced' to do any such thing. The onus is now on the UK Government to square gender recognition with the Equality Act (a reserved issue) and everyone should be wished good luck dealing with that toxic mess. 

Only fanatics and the fruitloop Greens believe this to be a suitable hill for the SG to die on. 

What do you suggest the alternative is then? That they simply do nothing at all? Could you imagine if that was the same attitude taken throughout key moments in history every time the anti-progressives got in the way? The SNP have had a lot of f**k ups in recent times, but this isn't one of them.

The onus isn't on the UK Government to do anything. They are anti-progressive and have a long running history of being anti-progressive and using every trick they can to try and slow down and completely halt progression.

Only a person who has never picked up a history book fails to see the pattern here.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

There have been numerous "fringe issues" over the past century, such as giving black people the right to vote or allowing gay people to get married. The only terrible look here is the UK Government forcing the Scottish Government to spend money on a court case in yet another effort to halt progress.

I lean towards the view that Sturgeon should've just rammed through this bill (or ideally an improved one) five years ago when the zeitgeist was very different. Her lack of ideological conviction and over-commitment to the big tent concept saw her too scared to upset reactionaries. That was then, though. I don't have a definitive stance on what should be done now. So I'm more responding to your first sentence here.

In this link, Gallup describe their polling data of white Americans during the civil rights movement. It shows that white Americans were against violent protests by Civil Rights activists. It also shows that white Americans were against peaceful protests by Civil Rights activists too. A year after the march that culminated in MLK's I Have a Dream speech, 74% of white Americans polled as being against such displays.

https://news.gallup.com/vault/246167/protests-seen-harming-civil-rights-movement-60s.aspx

Black rights in 1960s USA and trans rights in 2020s Scotland and UK are very different cases so I'm hesitant to draw parallels. One thing I'm reasonably comfortable pointing out, though, is how both show public opposition can be increased over time due to media propaganda. The Gallup polling shows how white opposition to Civil Rights grew over time and especially after high profile protests, when hostile media coverage would've been strongest. (An exception was a short-lived increase in public sympathy following MLK's assassination).

We've really seen this with opposition to trans rights in Scotland and UK. Theresa May was openly suggesting her own version of the GRR bill back in 2017 to very little backlash, even from her fellow Conservatives. That was back when the Tories had Brexit as their culture war issue of need. Brexit has gone now so they and their surrogate media need a new manufactured wedge issue to hijack public discourse with. We can see the effect of the media propaganda even just on this forum. Folk who've never posted before in the politics section are suddenly appearing to comment. Not on the things that affect their lives - housing, healthcare, education or economic issues. No, they're appearing just to comment on trans people. That's suddenly become their burning issue. They're dutifully obliging their preferred media propaganda sources.

It's frustrating but it may be that when you're up against too large a barrier - the entire UK media and political establishment plus an unthinking, obedient public - now might not be the opportune time to push. The opposition is fully mobilised at the moment.