The Christian Theology Education Thread

[sugna]

5 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Reasonable Faith's last podcast episode is an interesting one:

Genetic Study Confirms Dr. Craig's Model | Podcast | Reasonable Faith

It explains how the latest genetic study adds weight to Dr Craig's hypothesis that humanity did indeed grow from a single couple; the mytho-historical Adam and Eve.

Craig seems to base a lot of his output on a 1970s-style philosophical approach: "proof by assertion", appealing to our sense of plausibility in a domain where our experience can't apply, and extreme(!) cherry-picking of parts of evidence without actually considering whether the enormous amount of contradictory evidence is also worth some sort of weighting.

We know (to the extent that we can know anything; that is, there is always the possibility of living-in-a-simulation objections) that we are a species of ape that evolved from an earlier species of apes. It's impossible for me to illustrate the strength of the evidence for that in quantitative terms, so I won't even try; but I will say that it is many, many times "less uncertain" in terms of actual evidence than the most certain verdict that has even been returned in a court of law. (I don't expect everyone to accept that, but it's still trivially true.)

We did not descend or even evolve from just two members of a species. We really should have grown up beyond believing such things by now.

Also, his take on the Kalam cosmological argument fails at the first proposition (to be fair to him, that's been a problem since the time of Plato and Socrates, and Plato is still a great read on a rainy day): not everything that seems obvious to us can be shown to be true, and there's absolutely no need to assume that all events are caused just because we see (or possibly infer) causality in everyday life. However, if the universe, for example, had to be caused, and another entity caused it, then only special pleading can remove the had-to-be-caused prerequisite from that earlier(/greater/more complex) entity. Historically, that special pleading has happened a lot in this particular area, and no doubt that will continue.

(I'm not seeking to confront or persuade anyone here. I just wanted to address the "argument from authority", as it can sometimes appear more persuasive than actual evidence; and I never like to see the use of shaky premises to derive a logically sound conclusion, as that's always a bit of an implicit canard. So I wanted to play Devil's Advocate. If he exists. Which he doesn't. /Flanders)

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

On 23/10/2023 at 22:27, Doctor Manhattan said:

If you think that one was a mindfuck, check out his latest...

 

An amusing watch - AO seemed exasperated at times, which is something we rarely see!

Good to see sound-logic-driven ChatGPT become a convert to the cause.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

This hymn was on Songs of Praise earlier.

One of my favourites

 

[Shotgun]

 

 

[Salt n Vinegar]

18 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

This hymn was on Songs of Praise earlier.

One of my favourites

 

And the next weekend, the congregation would be twelve pensioners, three dogs and a homeless chap who is hiding from the cold*.

(Other stereotypes are available ).

I know this because a local group that I'm a member of uses a church hall every week.  The church was approached about hosting one of these televised events and immediately contacted all groups who used their premises asking how many would come along on the day because televising their normal weekly attendance would have been embarrassing.

Even being offered the chance to appear on telly wasn't sufficient. No service was televised.

[Granny Danger]

Religious theologises remind me of Trekkies or Game of Thrones enthusiasts or Tolkien fans.

Incredibly detailed discussion and debate about fictional events.

 

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

Had a feeling it wouldn’t be long…

It’s actually an excellent thread when sensible discussion breaks out.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

On 24/10/2023 at 12:27, sugna said:

 We did not descend or even evolve from just two members of a species. We really should have grown up beyond believing such things by now.

I don’t think Craig said we did, although some Christians undoubtedly think that way.

As for your other points, I’m leaning toward your way of thinking regarding the KCA, but will need to delve into it further before reaching a final conclusion.. if that’s even possible!

[D Angelo Barksdale]

[Hedgecutter]

On 05/11/2023 at 15:31, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

This hymn was on Songs of Praise earlier.

One of my favourites

 

My memory of hymns (pretty much limited to school, which is scandalous really) was trying to work out how the rest of the room was still on the previous line.

Fairly sure they were all 30 sec songs dragged out to last 5 mins each.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

An interesting watch, with Foster doing a great job at posing the questions.

Donaldson's bit was the best IMO, but I'm obviously biased.  He spoke of his faith anchoring him during the storms of politics.  I can relate to that when it comes to this board tbh.

Edited December 28, 2023 by CarrbridgeSaintee

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

On 07/11/2023 at 20:06, Chris Partlow said:

E: Made it possible, but doesn't cause it directly.  Also provides a way out.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

9 minutes ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

E: Made it possible, but doesn't cause it directly.  Also provides a way out.

This just sounds like a review of the Saw films.

[The Other Foot]

I must say, despite being a vociferous atheist for most of my life, some elements of organised religion have been of comfort to me recently. Not an easy year on a personal level, nor on a global level. But the idea of Jesus, or Buddha, even at the level of metaphor, is a settling one. When stories fly around of bombing campaigns, rapes, murders, people killing in the name of ‘nationality’ or ‘religion’ or ‘race’, I do find it comforting to think that a massive section of the world’s population know it’s wrong, and believe in the honour of love and peace - even if they don’t act upon it. I think the comfort is similar to that you can find in the pages of Bertrand Russell. Not THE truth, but a guide towards A truth. 
 

And by the way, I’ve been a right c**t at various stages through my life, and probably will be again. But since having children, I’ve had a stronger sense of empathy towards others, even if I remain an anti-social p***k. 

[Shotgun]

9 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

E: Made it possible, but doesn't cause it directly.  Also provides a way out.

When children are starving in a famine stricken land, what is their “way out”?

When a patient is dying in a hospital being targeted for destruction by people who view them as less than human because they worship god in a different way, what is their “way out”?

When someone is being eaten alive by cancer, has lost their loved ones in a natural disaster, or is in the process of being gang-raped, what is their “way out”?

 

ETA: What are the causes of natural disasters and diseases if not god?

Edited December 28, 2023 by Shotgun

[RuMoore]

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I think of Josef Fritzl’s daughter being raped loads

 

[Salvo Montalbano]

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Her point was ‘I’d rather be me dying of a brain injury than Jesus having nails hammered through his wrists’

It’s hard to argue with that.

Its hard to argue that it's better suffering as a human than to be the "son of God"? And dying of a condition that you weren't responsible for (whatever you think of his "crimes", Jesus was crucified as punishment for blasphemy)? And dying of a condition that can change the very nature of your being rather than one which, while horrific, allows you to die as you without anything happening to your brain which can cause you to change as a person? That's hard to argue with?

[RH33]

f**k me, if only those in Gazan hospitals prayed a bit harder.

[DA Baracus]

Folk do realise that this Carrbridge lad has found his latest trolling niche aye? Absolutely none of what he says here should be taken seriously as he doesn't believe a word of it himself, much like his previous aliases.

[Cosmic Joe]

9 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Folk do realise that this Carrbridge lad has found his latest trolling niche aye? Absolutely none of what he says here should be taken seriously as he doesn't believe a word of it himself, much like his previous aliases.

His latest persona as an orangey St Johnstone fan is off the wall.