The Christian Theology Education Thread

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

33 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

That's a very weak argument.

Christianity doesn't need arguments. It's meant to be something taken on faith alone. This is explicit in Jesus' teachings from the Bible.

If you have that faith, fine. I don't and I think you really need to want to have it to do so. But it frustrates me when I see these religious types with their convoluted arguments about why people should believe.

They're mostly terrible, terrible arguments, but for me it also shows that they don't really understand their own faith.

 

I see the philosophical, historical and scientific arguments for Christ not as replacements for, but as complimentary to the witness of the Holy Spirit.

They often provide a base that allows the agnostic or atheist to give Christianity a chance in the first place, often leading to a full conversion and development of a saving faith.

If there’s a biblical instruction to ignore arguments outside of faith then the Christian would have to take that on board, but I don’t think there is.

[DA Baracus]

Is it that time for the next attempt at trolling? 

[Vietnam91]

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

If there’s a biblical instruction to ignore arguments outside of faith then the Christian would have to take that on board, but I don’t think there is.

Suppose we have to be grateful so many people of faith didn't take the instructions and advice on slavery or stoning adulterers then.

[Forest_Fifer]

16 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

As well as the Kalam Cosmological Argument (), the Fine Tuning Argument is also very compelling.

Horny explains it, and details it’s appeal to many atheists well in this video.

 

Yeah, you're going to have to show that it's even possible for any of the fundamental constants to have a different value.

Also, "puddle meme"

[milton75]

6 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

The argument is that the existing laws require a designer though.

If one agreed with a) existing laws but b) also in a designer would one not also therefore expect the existing laws to apply to said designer?

[Cosmic Joe]

I note they've moved on from chaining up the swings on Sundays to opposing Tesco from opening up on the Sabbath in Stornoway.

I'm kind of ambivalent on this matter, although I disagree with one cultural group imposing itself on the rest of the population. 

Live and let live.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

5 hours ago, milton75 said:

If one agreed with a) existing laws but b) also in a designer would one not also therefore expect the existing laws to apply to said designer?

I wouldn’t say so.

If God created time, space and matter via the Big Bang then it’d be very unlikely that the newly created laws would apply to him too.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

8 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

Suppose we have to be grateful so many people of faith didn't take the instructions and advice on slavery or stoning adulterers then.

Tell that to the Christians who founded the abolition movement.

[milton75]

58 minutes ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I wouldn’t say so.

If God created time, space and matter via the Big Bang then it’d be very unlikely that the newly created laws would apply to him too.

So would it be fair to say that if God exists, whether in the "traditional" Christian construct, or in a modern interpretation, such as this Fine Tuning thing, that he can't be affected (negatively or positively) by physical concerns. He's basically outside space and time in the way we understand them. I guess, putting it at its most basic, he could never be "hurt" by a weapon, he could never suffer the effects of ageing, and time wouldn't apply to him as it does to us? 

[Sergeant Wilson]

21 minutes ago, milton75 said:

So would it be fair to say that if God exists, whether in the "traditional" Christian construct, or in a modern interpretation, such as this Fine Tuning thing, that he can't be affected (negatively or positively) by physical concerns. He's basically outside space and time in the way we understand them. I guess, putting it at its most basic, he could never be "hurt" by a weapon, he could never suffer the effects of ageing, and time wouldn't apply to him as it does to us? 

Obviously...

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

26 minutes ago, milton75 said:

So would it be fair to say that if God exists, whether in the "traditional" Christian construct, or in a modern interpretation, such as this Fine Tuning thing, that he can't be affected (negatively or positively) by physical concerns. He's basically outside space and time in the way we understand them. I guess, putting it at its most basic, he could never be "hurt" by a weapon, he could never suffer the effects of ageing, and time wouldn't apply to him as it does to us? 

I’m really not sure.

[Vietnam91]

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Tell that to the Christians who founded the abolition movement.

That's your answer .... f**k me. The book that is the word of God that is divine, inerrant and infallible can all be overlooked because a very small number of people who came 1,300 years later (2,300 if you just count the old testament and 1,500 if you use the earliest recorded book of the new testament) rejected that notion of infallibility.

Regardless your point was on taking instruction. My point is despite what it says in the book, most Christian's don't feel the need to practice the rules and behaviour outlined due to the moral code of their time and society and pick and choose what they adhere to.

Followers have to either be in the club fully not rejecting it as ordained. Not cherry picking what suits.

[jimbaxters]

2 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

That's your answer .... f**k me. The book that is the word of God that is divine, inerrant and infallible can all be overlooked because a very small number of people who came 1,300 years later (2,300 if you just count the old testament and 1,500 if you use the earliest recorded book of the new testament) rejected that notion of infallibility.

Regardless your point was on taking instruction. My point is despite what it says in the book, most Christian's don't feel the need to practice the rules and behaviour outlined due to the moral code of their time and society and pick and choose what they adhere to.

Followers have to either be in the club fully not rejecting it as ordained. Not cherry picking what suits.

Are you referring to the entire Bible or just the New Testament?

[Vietnam91]

35 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Are you referring to the entire Bible or just the New Testament?

Both, hence the two dates. Approval of slavery is mentioned in both.

[PossilYM]

On 12/09/2024 at 17:47, Freedom Farter said:

https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/news/news-and-statements/archbishop-justin-prays-palestinian-christians-lambeth-palace

Comparing UK christians to US christians on this issue shows how compromised US christians are. How fully captured they are by chauvinist political forces. Their Jesus was born in Kentucky.

I thought Jesus was a Mexican name.

[kennie makevin]

13 hours ago, Cosmic Joe said:

I note they've moved on from chaining up the swings on Sundays to opposing Tesco from opening up on the Sabbath in Stornoway.

I'm kind of ambivalent on this matter, although I disagree with one cultural group imposing itself on the rest of the population. 

Live and let live.

When you were you were young and your heart was an open book you used to say.....

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

9 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

That's your answer .... f**k me. The book that is the word of God that is divine, inerrant and infallible can all be overlooked because a very small number of people who came 1,300 years later (2,300 if you just count the old testament and 1,500 if you use the earliest recorded book of the new testament) rejected that notion of infallibility.

Regardless your point was on taking instruction. My point is despite what it says in the book, most Christian's don't feel the need to practice the rules and behaviour outlined due to the moral code of their time and society and pick and choose what they adhere to.

Followers have to either be in the club fully not rejecting it as ordained. Not cherry picking what suits.

Rejected the notion?  They started the abolition movement because they were inspired by scripture.  There was no picking and choosing.

Take the bible passages in context and with their actual meaning and you’ll reach the same conclusion.

[milton75]

10 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I’m really not sure.

I probably didn't phrase it well tbh.

Put it this way, when I look up Christian characteristics of God, the stuff that comes up includes:
Omnipresent: God is everywhere at all times
Omniscient: God is all-knowing and knows everything
Omnipotent: God is all-powerful

All of which I think is a cleaner way of stating what I was trying to get across here:

11 hours ago, milton75 said:

So would it be fair to say that if God exists, whether in the "traditional" Christian construct, or in a modern interpretation, such as this Fine Tuning thing, that he can't be affected (negatively or positively) by physical concerns. He's basically outside space and time in the way we understand them. I guess, putting it at its most basic, he could never be "hurt" by a weapon, he could never suffer the effects of ageing, and time wouldn't apply to him as it does to us? 

I'm genuinely curious as to whether Christians who really believe in God do believe those "Omnis" accurately describe him. In practical terms I suppose the have to - I can't see how a "God" figure could be vulnerable to time or physical assault, but I'm not Christian so not in the best place to understand.

[19QOS19]

On 04/09/2024 at 19:39, jimbaxters said:

Go to a church service and see that ALL that is preached there is love. Honestly.

 

On 04/09/2024 at 20:07, Cosmic Joe said:

I'm the guy who walked out of mass because the priest was being a homophobic p***k.

He mustn't have got the 'Preach Love' memo. 

[The Moonster]

20 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I wouldn’t say so.

If God created time, space and matter via the Big Bang then it’d be very unlikely that the newly created laws would apply to him too.

The bible says the universe is about 6,000 years old. The big bang happened 13.8 billion years ago. If God did create the big bang, it certainly wasn't a Christian god.