Scotland v Spain 28/03/2023

[gannonball]

17 hours ago, KnightswoodBear said:

 

What was the quality like? Tempted to go get one 

[Skyline Drifter]

21 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

 Hes experimented with Robertson in front of Tierney on the left and i hope its something we see again.

Seriously? 

I hope we never see it again. 

[Donathan]

14 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Seriously? 

I hope we never see it again. 

Why not? 

[Skyline Drifter]

36 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Why not? 

Because it doesnt work and Robertson's not a left winger. 

If Tierney and Robertson are both available we should be in a five regardless of level of opposition.

[lubo_blaha]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Because it doesnt work and Robertson's not a left winger. 

If Tierney and Robertson are both available we should be in a five regardless of level of opposition.

Against a weaker team, there is probably very little difference between us setting up with a back five including Tierney LCB and Robertson LWB and a back four with Tierney LB and Robertson LM in terms of the positions they take up on the pitch. 

[2426255]

Steve Clarke's system has in built flexibility. There was good rotation and adaptation in the Cyprus game depending on in game situations that you'd have to say it was difficult to define exactly where players spent their time.

The first goal against Cyprus is an example of that. McGregor, Armstrong, Tierney and Robertson weren't rigidly where you would expect them in the lead up to the first goal, it was fluid with good situational decision making which is what makes Clarke's team effective and a good watch a lot of the time and it means that viewing the teams in terms of rigid formations is all a bit of a pointless.

 

 

[2426255]

14 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

Against a weaker team, there is probably very little difference between us setting up with a back five including Tierney LCB and Robertson LWB and a back four with Tierney LB and Robertson LM in terms of the positions they take up on the pitch. 

Spot on. 

Most teams in Europe have adopted this kind of orthodoxy. Steve Clarke's Scotland are no different.

Edited April 2, 2023 by 2426255

[Skyline Drifter]

22 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

Against a weaker team, there is probably very little difference between us setting up with a back five including Tierney LCB and Robertson LWB and a back four with Tierney LB and Robertson LM in terms of the positions they take up on the pitch. 

Yeah, I think that's fair. When we dominate games Robertson spends more time in the other half anyway and Tierney will always go on his over-lapping centre back runs. I just don't see any need to consciously line them up differently for so called "lesser" sides. Farting about unnecessarily with a system that works for the two of them is just asking for trouble.

[accies1874]

30 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Steve Clarke's system has in built flexibility. There was good rotation and adaptation in the Cyprus game depending on in game situations that you'd have to say it was difficult to define exactly where players spent their time.

The first goal against Cyprus is an example of that. McGregor, Armstrong, Tierney and Robertson weren't rigidly where you would expect them in the lead up to the first goal, it was fluid with good situational decision making which is what makes Clarke's team effective and a good watch a lot of the time and it means that viewing the teams in terms of rigid formations is all a bit of a pointless.

 

 

I was in the North Stand so had most of the play on "my" side in the first half. It was interesting watching some of the rotations play out, although it wasn't as fluid with the ball as you'd like. 

Also, Adams didn't get many touches as far as I remember, but, as you can see in that clip, he was looking to go in behind a lot which was probably an instruction to stretch Cyprus a wee bit. He was always willing and that helped create space for the likes of Armstrong and Robertson. 

8 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Yeah, I think that's fair. When we dominate games Robertson spends more time in the other half anyway and Tierney will always go on his over-lapping centre back runs. I just don't see any need to consciously line them up differently for so called "lesser" sides. Farting about unnecessarily with a system that works for the two of them is just asking for trouble.

It will sometimes help us press a bit easier imo. Ideally Robertson will engage really high up anyway, but the back five can make things tricky. Clarke said after Spain that the formation against Cyprus meant we couldn't press as effectively so he tweaked it slightly against Spain. I'm not sure what the tweak was but it's interesting hearing him talk about his tactics as he tends to be quite reserved and player-focused imo. 

[Brother Blades]

20 hours ago, KnightswoodBear said:

 

Great pic!
Is that a spider in your hair? 

[Old Bing]

6 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

He will Bing, that is what SSC does. He somehow took us into Europe then look what happened next (albeit in Kilmarnock). Let it go & just let him do SSC things with TNT, even Souness down here is recognising the job he has done.

Theres nothing to let go of, im a Scotland supporter with an interest in the national team. Im not going to let that go

Hes doing well yes, I just don't want that to be the reason for us to go back to playing the 5 every single game just because we've won a few. And fear that might happen.

[Old Bing]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Yeah, I think that's fair. When we dominate games Robertson spends more time in the other half anyway and Tierney will always go on his over-lapping centre back runs. I just don't see any need to consciously line them up differently for so called "lesser" sides. Farting about unnecessarily with a system that works for the two of them is just asking for trouble.

Its lucky he farted about with the system for the latest nations league games and in doing so achieved very much improved results. Against ukraine and Republic of Ireland. Its not unnecessarily, its to win games.

Edited April 2, 2023 by BingMcCrosby

[welshbairn]

22 hours ago, KnightswoodBear said:

 

[Skyline Drifter]

39 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Its lucky he farted about with the system for the latest nations league games and in doing so achieved very much improved results. Against ukraine and Republic of Ireland. Its not unnecessarily, its to win games.

Two games Robertson wasn't available for (& Tierney wasn't available for the 2nd). He was FORCED to change that system. You think he would have changed it by choice if the two had been available? Not a chance.

It might easily be argued incidentally that the Irish game is one of our poorest in recent times whilst the Ukraine one was, after the first 10 minutes anyway, fundamentally a rearguard action.

[Old Bing]

11 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Two games Robertson wasn't available for (& Tierney wasn't available for the 2nd). He was FORCED to change that system. You think he would have changed it by choice if the two had been available? Not a chance.

It might easily be argued incidentally that the Irish game is one of our poorest in recent times whilst the Ukraine one was, after the first 10 minutes anyway, fundamentally a rearguard action.

I think your getting the games confused, the away game to Ireland we played a back 5 and got our arses absolutely handed to us by a poor team.

The later home game we played a back 4, and played much better.

He was forced to change the system as we were playing very badly, likely had he continued down that road and continued playing like that and lost those next set of games before his formation change he wouldn't be manager right now.

I'd rather give the manager the credit for changing things up and improving our set of go to plans. He had played the 5 without Tierney many times before.

[2426255]

27 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

He was forced to change the system as we were playing very badly, likely had he continued down that road and continued playing like that and lost those next set of games before his formation change he wouldn't be manager right now.

Chill out @BingMcCrosby. You seem to really hate Steve Clarke for some reason mate. It's not healthy, let it go. 

[Moomintroll]

1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Theres nothing to let go of, im a Scotland supporter with an interest in the national team. Im not going to let that go

Hes doing well yes, I just don't want that to be the reason for us to go back to playing the 5 every single game just because we've won a few. And fear that might happen.

Fairynuff, that is a decent point, do it when it will probably work not just because it will probably work.

[Skyline Drifter]

43 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I think your getting the games confused, the away game to Ireland we played a back 5 and got our arses absolutely handed to us by a poor team.

The later home game we played a back 4, and played much better.

He was forced to change the system as we were playing very badly, likely had he continued down that road and continued playing like that and lost those next set of games before his formation change he wouldn't be manager right now.

I'd rather give the manager the credit for changing things up and improving our set of go to plans. He had played the 5 without Tierney many times before.

I'm not remotely getting my games confused. We were not very good at home to Ireland either and were fortunate (and very thankful to Craig Gordon) to win.

And it's a matter of fact Robertson missed that international window, and Tierney missed the Ukraine one too. That's why he changed it, not because we "were playing badly". I never said he couldn't play a five without Tierney (clearly he can and has). What I said was if you have both Robertson and Tierney then you do play a five because it suits them best, not shoehorning Robertson into a midfield role with Tierney behind him.

[KnightswoodBear]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I'll take it. 

[Old Bing]

11 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'm not remotely getting my games confused. We were not very good at home to Ireland either and were fortunate (and very thankful to Craig Gordon) to win.

And it's a matter of fact Robertson missed that international window, and Tierney missed the Ukraine one too. That's why he changed it, not because we "were playing badly". I never said he couldn't play a five without Tierney (clearly he can and has). What I said was if you have both Robertson and Tierney then you do play a five because it suits them best, not shoehorning Robertson into a midfield role with Tierney behind him.

I dont think I said "very good" I said better. You don't think we played better than the away game? Or in the last Ukraine game in comparison with the first 2?

I think clarke definitely deserves credit for the changes and improvement in the performances in those fixtures.

17 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

Fairynuff, that is a decent point, do it when it will probably work not just because it will probably work.

Thats just it, in my opinion. Horses for courses, were too good a team now to need to play a back 5 against the likes of Cyprus. And Georgia. We can qualify for this group, but we have to continue to play positively. The back 5 against weaker teams just gives them more chances for easy possession.