Buddies v Jambos 13/05/23

[flyingscot]

3 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

I thought Taylor was superb on Saturday and honestly think we'd have had it sewn up if he'd stayed on as he had both Oda and Ginelly in his pocket - his forward passing, for a centre half, was also consistent and dangerous, a clear upgrade on Dunne's World Cup final big diagonals but I 100% understand why he was taken off. His one lapse led to a daft booking and we know he is prone to that.

Grieve was also causing a power of issues to the Hearts defence but took a sore one trying to get a shot away about 10 mins before half time - it was a fantastic last ditch block by the lad Sibbick but I dunno if Grieve kicked the turf or the top of Sibbick's foot but he clearly hurt himself and although we gave him every chance, his race was obviously run by that point, surprised it took as long as early in the 2nd half to take him off.

On the subject of Dunne - I like him and always have but since it became obvious he wasn't signing a new deal, he's mentally thrown in the towel. Saturday was dreadful from him.

Agree with the summary but I thought Taylor was unlucky with his booking to be honest- guy was running towards the touchline and he challenged him and got booked which seemed awful harsh compared to others who'd got away with worse. 

It was probably the worst refereeing performance of the season. Embarrassing stuff with inconsistent calls and bookings and just seemed to annoy both sets of teams and fans all around. One of those games where it got away from the ref early on and he had no idea how to get control again. 

[Shuggie_Murray7]

3 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

I thought Taylor was superb on Saturday and honestly think we'd have had it sewn up if he'd stayed on as he had both Oda and Ginelly in his pocket - his forward passing, for a centre half, was also consistent and dangerous, a clear upgrade on Dunne's World Cup final big diagonals but I 100% understand why he was taken off. His one lapse led to a daft booking and we know he is prone to that.

It's not the first time this season SR has made a very early sub becasue someone is on a booking. I don't agree with it. It wasn't like Taylor was having a nightmare and was all over the place on his booking. He was one of the best 2 players on the park in the fiurst half for me and I was pretty calm about him playing on with a booking.

They are professional footballers and should have enough discipline to manage their own game when on a booking. Subbing off one of our top 2 or 3 players in that first half completely changed the way we played in the second. SR has done an unbelievable job for us, but that is something I have found quite annoying this season.

As for Dunne, a few weeks ago I'd liked him to have signed a new deal and stayed. At this stage though, I'm totally cool with him going now. His head has gone and he's clearly already thinking about moving on. He has been a bombscare for the best part of 6 weeks now. Get rid.

[djchapsticks]

Just now, paranoid android said:

A foul in the box is pretty much always going to be a penalty.

The rules around handball are all over the place, and need to be addressed in the summer, if the authorities can be bothered - they probably think it's all working just fine.

Consistency of thought? Never gonna happen.

The real kicker for me is how much more smoothly games in Europe and South of the border flow with VAR overall and how much the elements common sense is implemented. Though this was not without it's issues in the early days, they also have the benefit of many, many angles which Scottish football doesn't actually have (but should perhaps be looked at).

The criticism of VAR and those interpreting it is fair but let's be honest, it was fucking bolted on as an afterthought instead of the common sense approach of 'we started this season without it so we'll finish it and make sure it's properly installed and officials trained by start of 23/24'

Will there be a summit to try and get through what, just now, can be still reasonably called 'teething issues'? 

This would of course, need to be addressed first and foremost by the SFA and referees admitting that they have fucked an absolute shitload of decisions and have not been applying common sense to game changing decisions so I won't hold my breath that much will change.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

1 minute ago, flyingscot said:

Agree with the summary but I thought Taylor was unlucky with his booking to be honest- guy was running towards the touchline and he challenged him and got booked which seemed awful harsh compared to others who'd got away with worse. 

It was probably the worst refereeing performance of the season. Embarrassing stuff with inconsistent calls and bookings and just seemed to annoy both sets of teams and fans all around. One of those games where it got away from the ref early on and he had no idea how to get control again. 

It was a total bodycheck on an opponent who was cruising past him. I thought it was a clear yellow - about the only call the ref got right all day.

[djchapsticks]

Just now, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

It's not the first time this season SR has made a very early sub becasue someone is on a booking. I don't agree with it. It wasn't like Taylor was having a nightmare and was all over the place on his booking. He was one of the best 2 players on the park in the fiurst half for me and I was pretty calm about him playing on with a booking.

They are professional footballers and should have enough discipline to manage their own game when on a booking. Subbing off one of our top 2 or 3 players in that first half completely changed the way we played in the second. SR has done an unbelievable job for us, but that is something I have found quite annoying this season.

As for Dunne, a few weeks ago I'd liked him to have signed a new deal and stayed. At this stage though, I'm totally cool with him going now. His head has gone and he's clearly already thinking about moving on. He has been a bombscare for the best part of 6 weeks now. Get rid.

He got caught out with it with O'Hara at Livi around Xmas time and has said he wouldn't make the same mistake again. He's probably overcorrected though, I agree. It's one of those where you need to read what's happening but he did reason that the ref had told Taylor that he was on a final warning and his next foul would be a second yellow which I find fucking mental (but all too believable) given Taylor maybe committed another 1 foul the entire half.

[btb]

On 14/05/2023 at 09:19, Biscuits said:

Definitely this.  It’s the type of yellow card foul you see in most games to stop a counter.  Never a red card in a million years.

None of those million years can be 2023 - cos I fully expected it to be red.

On a weekly basis I read "never a red card tackle" on here, more often than not on TV there'll be a narct  that the presenters identify and bang on about - they must realize it's only a fortnight (tops) since they identified a similar miscarrage of justice. The way the game is being refereed in 2023 might not be right but it's foolish to not to understand current interpretation.

[lennyzer0]

21 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

On the subject of Dunne - I like him and always have but since it became obvious he wasn't signing a new deal, he's mentally thrown in the towel. Saturday was dreadful from him.

I was surprised to see a defender of his experience allow Shankland to get round him and keep the ball in play later on - but at the same time, it was a crackign recovery tackle to whip the ball off Shankland's toe a second later.

[smellthepaw]

9 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

He got caught out with it with O'Hara at Livi around Xmas time and has said he wouldn't make the same mistake again. He's probably overcorrected though, I agree. It's one of those where you need to read what's happening but he did reason that the ref had told Taylor that he was on a final warning and his next foul would be a second yellow which I find fucking mental (but all too believable) given Taylor maybe committed another 1 foul the entire half.

He probably assessed how card happy and mental some of the referees decisions were, that he didn't want to take the risk. 

[lennyzer0]

9 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

He got caught out with it with O'Hara at Livi around Xmas time and has said he wouldn't make the same mistake again. He's probably overcorrected though, I agree. It's one of those where you need to read what's happening but he did reason that the ref had told Taylor that he was on a final warning and his next foul would be a second yellow which I find fucking mental (but all too believable) given Taylor maybe committed another 1 foul the entire half.

Genuinely the most bizarre of the refs many f**k ups was his failure to book Andy Halliday. He could have had exactly zero complaints for a yellow after doing whatever St Mirren player it was early on, but when he then committed another foul a few minutes later and never got booked, it was obvious the ref hadn't a clue.

[smellthepaw]

13 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

It's not the first time this season SR has made a very early sub becasue someone is on a booking. I don't agree with it. It wasn't like Taylor was having a nightmare and was all over the place on his booking. He was one of the best 2 players on the park in the fiurst half for me and I was pretty calm about him playing on with a booking.

They are professional footballers and should have enough discipline to manage their own game when on a booking. Subbing off one of our top 2 or 3 players in that first half completely changed the way we played in the second. SR has done an unbelievable job for us, but that is something I have found quite annoying this season.

As for Dunne, a few weeks ago I'd liked him to have signed a new deal and stayed. At this stage though, I'm totally cool with him going now. His head has gone and he's clearly already thinking about moving on. He has been a bombscare for the best part of 6 weeks now. Get rid.

I said it weeks ago. He seems like a very confident character, though his confidence doesn't match his footballing ability a lot of the time. Always prone to a mistake defensively, always opts for a long ball, which almost always ends up back with the opposition. He also drops in the complete unneccessary foul time and time again. 
The Killie game a couple of weeks ago was simply enough for me. Will not be missed.

[paranoid android]

23 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

The real kicker for me is how much more smoothly games in Europe and South of the border flow with VAR overall and how much the elements common sense is implemented. Though this was not without it's issues in the early days, they also have the benefit of many, many angles which Scottish football doesn't actually have (but should perhaps be looked at).

The criticism of VAR and those interpreting it is fair but let's be honest, it was fucking bolted on as an afterthought instead of the common sense approach of 'we started this season without it so we'll finish it and make sure it's properly installed and officials trained by start of 23/24'

Will there be a summit to try and get through what, just now, can be still reasonably called 'teething issues'? 

This would of course, need to be addressed first and foremost by the SFA and referees admitting that they have fucked an absolute shitload of decisions and have not been applying common sense to game changing decisions so I won't hold my breath that much will change.

I think it's expected and acceptable that there would we teething issues, and they should be able to use the learning to improve things.

There does seem to be a problem with officials, though, and I doubt we'll ever get away from that.

[Wilbur]

From my seat in W2 the Haring tackle looked like a clear cut red card. The TV footage of it has changed my mind, should have been only a yellow. At the game I thought Haring had scythed O'Hara down with a swinging leg, TV showed it was nothing more than a (very cynical) trip on a player travelling at speed.

Hearts appeal should be upheld.

[Hendo]

48 minutes ago, smellthepaw said:

I said it weeks ago. He seems like a very confident character, though his confidence doesn't match his footballing ability a lot of the time. Always prone to a mistake defensively, always opts for a long ball, which almost always ends up back with the opposition. He also drops in the complete unneccessary foul time and time again. 
The Killie game a couple of weeks ago was simply enough for me. Will not be missed.

Agree with all of this. That time on Saturday when he tried to escort the ball out, got caught but then recovered with an inch perfect tackle sums him up, capable of brilliance and calamity in equal measure. These are not good qualities in a centre half, give me a Steady Eddie every day of the week.

[pozbaird]

I agreed with the Taylor for Dunne change. At half time, where I sit, we all talked about hoping Robbo’ was in there telling everyone not to give that card happy referee a ‘decision to make’. I completely understood why Robbo’ made that change. The second half was yet another needless self-inflicted boot in the stones. We had them. 2-0 and cruising. They were there for a 4-0, no problem. We turned to shite - again. When they got it to 2-1, I knew, just knew, we weren’t going to win that game. The only saving grace is that the referee blew up after the penalty. Had there been three or four minutes left, we’d have found a way to conjure up a 2-3 defeat. This has been a good season, but we cannot be 2-0 up and extremely comfortable at home, at half time, see the opposition go down to ten men, and still not fcuking win the game. 

[elvis]

12 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

I agreed with the Taylor for Dunne change. At half time, where I sit, we all talked about hoping Robbo’ was in there telling everyone not to give that card happy referee a ‘decision to make’. I completely understood why Robbo’ made that change. The second half was yet another needless self-inflicted boot in the stones. We had them. 2-0 and cruising. They were there for a 4-0, no problem. We turned to shite - again. When they got it to 2-1, I knew, just knew, we weren’t going to win that game. The only saving grace is that the referee blew up after the penalty. Had there been three or four minutes left, we’d have found a way to conjure up a 2-3 defeat. This has been a good season, but we cannot be 2-0 up and extremely comfortable at home, at half time, see the opposition go down to ten men, and still not fcuking win the game. 

It's simple they are a shower of shite bags .Why the hell you let yourself be pushed back for almost the whole of the second half against 10 men is scandalous like you as soon as they scored we just knew they would f**k it up and its not the first time either this season they have bottled it.

Edited May 15, 2023 by elvis

[pozbaird]

2 minutes ago, elvis said:

It's simple they are a shower of shite bags .Why the hell you let yourself be pushed back for almost the whole of the second half against 10 men is scandalous like you as soon as they scored we just knew they would f**k it up and its not the first time either this season they have bottled it.

I don’t think they’re a shower of shitebags, otherwise we’d be in Ross C or Dundee United’s position in the league. I do think that in a few isolated matches, collectively, we’ve shit the bed. Overall though, a decent bunch, a good squad and manager, and a Top 6 season. Days like Saturday and that Killie shitshow are going to hurt us big time though.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

8 minutes ago, elvis said:

It's simple they are a shower of shite bags .Why the hell you let yourself be pushed back for almost the whole of the second half against 10 men is scandalous like you as soon as they scored we just knew they would f**k it up and its not the first time either this season they have bottled it.

Haring wasn't sent off until 77 minutes.

[pozbaird]

Just now, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

Haring wasn't sent off until 77 minutes.

We were however pushed back by Hearts with either 11 or 10 men, for most of the second half, and made substitutions that looked like we were prepared to soak up their pressure and hit on the odd breakaway. I think Robbo’ fcuked up on Saturday - after half time. First half we were excellent. It was a game we should have simply continued doing what we were doing. I think on the BBC website match report, Robbo’ said ‘we got what we deserved’. He’s right, we got exactly what we deserved, and fair play to Hearts for delivering the boot in the haw-maws our second half showing deserved. Only ourselves to blame - again. Robbo’ is great for us, but that second half was bollocks from him and the team.

[buddie06smfc]

It looked to me Hearts changed to a 3-5-2, or a variation of it, in the second half. From memory this season when other teams have played 3-5-2 against us, we’ve really struggled against it. We couldn’t get to grips with them at the start of the second half and the Grieve injury didn’t help our cause.

I can recall Motherwell at Fir Park and Killie in the 0-0 game at home matching our formation and us struggling against them.

[elvis]

1 hour ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

Haring wasn't sent off until 77 minutes.

They still shat themselves for that second half .