Steve Clarke

[Gordon EF]

41 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

What does this actually mean though?  It's typical HR buzzword territory but what are the consequences for not achieving it and the rewards for doing so. What about mitigation? If this isn't all set out in advance it doesn't mean anything and it's just ambition stuff that still needs judged on its merits as the contract approaches potential renewal date.

At the start of this campaign, I'm not sure qualification should have been the minimum expectation, though it was certainly a realistic aim. Are we saying if he doesn't achieve it then the contract can be cancelled or something? Does he trigger an extension or bonus by achieving it? What if we need a point in the last game to qualify after a reasonably successful campaign (say we don't get the 2nd goal in Norway) and then McGinn gets himself red carded five mins into the last game v Norway and suddenly we're up against it outwith the control of the manager. We put in a decent 85 mins with 10 men but lose a heartbreaking deflection in the last minute. Thanks very much Stevie but you've failed in our metric time to try someone else?

It's fine for the SFA committee / Ian Maxwell to set realistic targets and talk to Clarke about what they expect. I don't see that kind of thing as a contractual issue though.

I'm not suggesting some kind of contractual set up where punishments and rewards are triggered. It's just a rule of thumb that if we're qualifying for tournaments then Steve Clarke is doing a good job. If we're advancing in tournaments, he's doing an excellent job.

[Pocketman]

It is not nice to lose, particularly to pretty poor teams like Northern Ireland who just set out to defend. I guess that is the point of friendlies to test ourselves against such opponents and it is clear we still struggle against doggedly defensive teams and to a certain extent teams who initiate a high press. However the difference now compared to 2 years or so ago when we would more regularly turn in a performance like last night, is that we have the evidence in terms of numerous performances/results that can be achieved when team selection and tactics click.

We didn't have that evidence before - therefore am pretty relaxed about Clarke and remain optimistic about our Euro performances and chances. Plenty of lessons to be taken from and built on from last night. As most know, the path to improvement and making gains is rarely a straight line (:). 

As for reactions to these friendly results, there have been some wildly spectacular takes on here. Too numerous to post or reference. I guess that is social media permeating its way to behaviours and attitudes - its is either fantastic or shite; black or white; massive win or a massive fail etc. Context and nuance as well as wider/mitigating factors are inconveniences as they take a view into an area that requires more thinking beyond immediate reactions.....

 

Edited March 27 by KingRocketman II
typos

[No_Problemo]

38 minutes ago, Jaggy McJagface said:

I’m not sure we’re guaranteed to turn up for the opener.

In the Hampden games at the last Euros, the Ukraine playoff and the England friendly (although I appreciate this wasn’t a competitive match) it felt like we were playing the occasion as much as the game and it got the better of us. Hopefully that’s the type of performance that’s behind us but I’d be wary of another big game disappointment.

You can’t guarantee anything, but you can still be confident based on what you have seen from the team. 

The England game wasn’t anything like a big game for us, our big game was a few days earlier. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

46 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

It is not nice to lose, particularly to pretty poor teams like Northern Ireland who just set out to defend. I guess that is the point of friendlies to test ourselves against such opponents and it is clear we still struggle against doggedly defensive teams and to a certain extent teams who initiate a high press. However the difference now compared to 2 years or so ago when we would more regularly turn in a performance like last night, is that we have the evidence in terms of numerous performances/results that can be achieved when team selection and tactics click.

We didn't have that evidence before - therefore am pretty relaxed about Clarke and remain optimistic about our Euro performances and chances. Plenty of lessons to be taken from and built on from last night. As most know, the path to improvement and making gains is rarely a straight line (:). 

As for reactions to these friendly results, there have been some wildly spectacular takes on here. Too numerous to post or reference. I guess that is social media permeating its way to behaviours and attitudes - its is either fantastic or shite; black or white; massive win or a massive fail etc. Context and nuance as well as wider/mitigating factors are inconveniences as they take a view into an area that requires more thinking beyond immediate reactions.....

 

I must be missing all these wild takes? Im not sure there's been much of a reaction tbh. Its kind of expected a bit of criticism losing at home to N Ireland no?

1 hour ago, No_Problemo said:

We were very unlucky not to get something from Spain away, the only complaint after the game and Clarke said this too was that we didn’t keep the ball well enough.

Since then we have played England, France and Netherlands and have clearly tried to go out and control games to a far greater extent.

Against Germany I think we will see more of a mix of the two styles, as I’m assuming that’s why Clarke has been working on it. If we can mix our best stuffy defensive work as shown against Spain, while being better on the ball at times then…

Last night was pish, but I don’t overly get the doom and gloom. I’m pretty confident we’ll turn up come the opening game - as long as we have close to our strongest team available. 

Again im not seeing this doom and gloom. Were all I would think behind Clarke and the team for the euros.

Agreed some of those games within the 7 we could play 50 times and still not win. But 2 of the games Georgia and Norway we should have done better and last night was a shit show and no mistaking.

Winning builds confidence and thats what we needed last night.

[Skyline Drifter]

21 hours ago, 2426255 said:

The latest contract that runs until 2026 was agreed before the start of Euro 2024 qualifying. Can they change the criteria/terms? 

I think it might be something looked at in future contracts, but not for this tournament. I think that's fair and reasonable.

 

5 hours ago, PB1994 said:

Of course they can change the goals/expectations. I'm not sure they will however considering it is a World Cup qualifying campaign, which is much harder to do.

I haven't looked into it but I'm sure only teams that top the group qualify for the World Cup and then it is some second placed teams plus teams that do well in the Nations League that get into the playoffs? It's a tough ask to win the group and I doubt that would be the expectation. The goal will, obviously, be to qualify but I'm sure the expectation from the SFA will be to finish second and give it a good go through the playoffs. 

 

5 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Steve Clarke would have to sign a renegotiated contract and you'd expect his terms would need to be improved to reflect the increased expectations of the job. Is that fair?

 

2 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

I'm not suggesting some kind of contractual set up where punishments and rewards are triggered. It's just a rule of thumb that if we're qualifying for tournaments then Steve Clarke is doing a good job. If we're advancing in tournaments, he's doing an excellent job.

You weren't but some went on to discuss as if it should be

[2426255]

Surprised no-one else picked this story up (about a month old). I like Steve Clarke, but it's a bit over the top and unnecessary. 

Quote

COULD a statue of one of Scotland’s Euro 2024 heroes be on its way to New Cumnock in time for the finals in Germany?

Hopeful officials are in talks to place a statue of team manager Steve Clarke in the centre of the town this summer. Every possible site has been explored – but it is understood that the life size bronze sculpture would temporarily replace the Robert Burns statue in Castle. Councilors and officials are in advanced talks about the statue and where it could be sited once Scotland exit the competition.

https://www.cumnockchronicle.com/news/24222693.steve-clarke-statue-set-replace-burns-monument-ayr/

[Butters Scotch]

12 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Surprised no-one else picked this story up (about a month old). I like Steve Clarke, but it's a bit over the top and unnecessary. 

https://www.cumnockchronicle.com/news/24222693.steve-clarke-statue-set-replace-burns-monument-ayr/

Tinpot.

[velo army]

5 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Surprised no-one else picked this story up (about a month old). I like Steve Clarke, but it's a bit over the top and unnecessary. 

https://www.cumnockchronicle.com/news/24222693.steve-clarke-statue-set-replace-burns-monument-ayr/

Can we get whomever did that Cristiano Ronaldo one to do it? I'd chip in.

[Scary Bear]

22 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Surprised no-one else picked this story up (about a month old). I like Steve Clarke, but it's a bit over the top and unnecessary. 

https://www.cumnockchronicle.com/news/24222693.steve-clarke-statue-set-replace-burns-monument-ayr/

May fool?

[The Moonster]

22 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Surprised no-one else picked this story up (about a month old). I like Steve Clarke, but it's a bit over the top and unnecessary. 

https://www.cumnockchronicle.com/news/24222693.steve-clarke-statue-set-replace-burns-monument-ayr/

 

22 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

Tinpot.

Are the pair of you doing some sort of elaborate whoosh here or have you genuinely only read the headline?

[2426255]

Just a bit of fun really. I saw the story and hadn't seen it before. I wanted to see if anyone actually visits the sources or if they'd just wade in head first and start calling it 'tinpot'.

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

 

Are the pair of you doing some sort of elaborate whoosh here or have you genuinely only read the headline?

 

37 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Just a bit of fun really. I saw the story and hadn't seen it before. I wanted to see if anyone actually visits the sources or if they'd just wade in head first and start calling it 'tinpot'.

I've read the article you tit and it sounds like they are building a permanent statue somewhere in Ayrshire.

I'd be all for it if he won something but as he hasn't, it's all very tinpot.

 

"Hopeful officials are in talks to place a statue of team manager Steve Clarke in the centre of the town this summer.

Every possible site has been explored – but it is understood that the life size bronze sculpture would temporarily replace the Robert Burns statue in Castle.

Councillors and officials are in advanced talks about the statue and where it could be sited once Scotland exit the competition.

Keir Hardie Hill has also been mentioned as a possible location for the monument in honour of the former St Mirren and Chelsea defender, who was born and raised in Ayrshire."

Edited May 9 by Butters Scotch

[2426255]

1 minute ago, Butters Scotch said:

 

I've read the article you tit and it sounds like they are building a permanent statue somewhere in Ayrshire.

I'd be all for it if he won something but as he hasn't, it's all very tinpot.

 

"Hopeful officials are in talks to place a statue of team manager Steve Clarke in the centre of the town this summer.

Every possible site has been explored – but it is understood that the life size bronze sculpture would temporarily replace the Robert Burns statue in Castle.

Councillors and officials are in advanced talks about the statue and where it could be sited once Scotland exit the competition.

Keir Hardie Hill has also been mentioned as a possible location for the monument in honour of the former St Mirren and Chelsea defender, who was born and raised in Ayrshire."

read the editor's notes there champ.

[Butters Scotch]

1 minute ago, 2426255 said:

read the editor's notes there champ.

You got me there, well done champ

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

 

I've read the article you tit and it sounds like they are building a permanent statue somewhere in Ayrshire.

I'd be all for it if he won something but as he hasn't, it's all very tinpot.

 

"Hopeful officials are in talks to place a statue of team manager Steve Clarke in the centre of the town this summer.

Every possible site has been explored – but it is understood that the life size bronze sculpture would temporarily replace the Robert Burns statue in Castle.

Councillors and officials are in advanced talks about the statue and where it could be sited once Scotland exit the competition.

Keir Hardie Hill has also been mentioned as a possible location for the monument in honour of the former St Mirren and Chelsea defender, who was born and raised in Ayrshire."

It's an April fools joke "you tit".

[LiviLion]

3 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

I've read the article you tit and it sounds like they are building a permanent statue somewhere in Ayrshire.

f**k me

 

[2426255]

A bit about Steve Clarke's controversial loyalty system, touching on some reasons for it. Taken from the Sporting Life interview with Tom English.

Quote

When I got the Scotland job. When I decided to take the Scotland job I didn’t really know the ins and outs of international football and you think okay, I’ll do what I did at Kilmarnock because it worked really well and you go in and it’s a little bit false because the first time I went in was a Summer camp so you had a good spell of training where you could work with the team, you could get ready for the matches and then suddenly you get to the September, the October and November camps and they’re (the players) coming in. You’ve got two 20 minute tactical elements in your three or four days together. That’s all you’ve got to work with them so you’re starting to adapt and think I need to change. I need to change what I’m doing and one of the things is continuity.

Continuity I thought was a good idea. To keep picking a similar group and try and work so that every time they come to camp you’re just refreshing what you did before and just changing the way you work because it’s not the same as a club job – it’s completely different. You’re taking boys from different clubs all over the country who’ve different ways of playing, different preparation and you’re trying to put that together so that when they come to Scotland they think ‘right, this is what we do with Scotland’. I realised that. It took me a while to implement that and then it takes a period of time for the players to pick up on it and to get that continuity and that forward momentum that I think we’ve managed to pick up.

Steve Clarke

 

[SlayerX]

5 hours ago, 2426255 said:

A bit about Steve Clarke's controversial loyalty system, touching on some reasons for it. Taken from the Sporting Life interview with Tom English.

 

Great article.

He's absolutely spot on.

One of the big reasons why SAF was so successful is because of the loyalty and warmth he showed towards his players. I remember when Cantona was suspended for the Kung Fu kick. SAF personally went to Paris, as Eric was planning to retire.

SAF went above and beyond for Eric, and Eric repaid him.

Till this day Cantona, Beckham, Piqué, Ronaldo, Fletcher, regard SAF as their second father.

The Manchester United players would've ran through a brick wall for SAF. As they knew that he had their back.

Craig Brown had the same loyalty philosophy. That's why Richard Gough never received another call up after he criticised the Roxburgh/Brown regime after Euro 92.

The most recent time we had this team harmony, this camaraderie, team spirit was with Craig Brown. So Steve Clarke Is definitely doing something right.

[2426255]

2 hours ago, SlayerX said:

Great article.

He's absolutely spot on.

One of the big reasons why SAF was so successful is because of the loyalty and warmth he showed towards his players. I remember when Cantona was suspended for the Kung Fu kick. SAF personally went to Paris, as Eric was planning to retire.

SAF went above and beyond for Eric, and Eric repaid him.

Till this day Cantona, Beckham, Piqué, Ronaldo, Fletcher, regard SAF as their second father.

The Manchester United players would've ran through a brick wall for SAF. As they knew that he had their back.

Craig Brown had the same loyalty philosophy. That's why Richard Gough never received another call up after he criticised the Roxburgh/Brown regime after Euro 92.

The most recent time we had this team harmony, this camaraderie, team spirit was with Craig Brown. So Steve Clarke Is definitely doing something right.

Thanks. I think it's undervalued by supporters. The loyalty scheme started off as pragmatism. A way to get the most of the limited time on the training pitch, but I think it's developed beyond that into a club atmosphere.

I think the way Steve Clarke manages the squad is excellent. He walks the line between being ruthless and phasing players out, rewarding players who have performed for him even if they are going through a tough spell at club level and keeping things fresh by drip feeding the younger players into the squads.

Edited May 18 by 2426255

[Jambomo]

Clarke isn’t even really the only manager that does this, it’s arguably why the likes of Maguire has remained in the England squad even in his worst times, they always had a pretty settled squad.

I also think he’s basically picking our best players. There isn’t anyone playing better than the players he is picking. You could maybe argue for a couple, I.e you see calls for Gauld etc but he’s doing well in a not especially great league, most of the arguments are for more fringe players. The players he picks are to my mind, the best available. 

Edited May 19 by Jambomo