Todd_is_God Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 35 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said: How was it clear? Because the ball wasn't on the centre spot with play ready to restart as it would have been had the decision been a goal. It was where the offside was given with play ready to restart with a Tottenham free kick That someone / multiple people in the VAR room wasn't paying attention to the field of play doesn't in itself mean the on field decision wasn't clear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: Because the ball wasn't on the centre spot with play ready to restart as it would have been had the decision been a goal. It was where the offside was given with play ready to restart with a Tottenham free kick That someone / multiple people in the VAR room wasn't paying attention to the field of play doesn't in itself mean the on field decision wasn't clear. Why would the VAR, AVAR and replay operator be looking at a live picture of the stadium though? The replay operator was getting the angles and point of contact ready and the VAR and AVAR would be looking at that. The audio from the referee and assistant to the VAR room wasn't 100% clear - it should be obvious from the fact that the linesman said "delaying, delaying" that he thought it was offside, but the referee saying "give it" didn't help (although the linesman did then say "coming back for the offside mate" in fairness). But a clear process would be something like they have in rugby "on field decision is offside - can you check" is cleat and unambiguous, and the VAR replying "check complete - you can award the goal" is the same. One person seems to say "on" but it's not clear if they mean onside or time on or play on or something else. I don't see how there was any part of that process that can be described as clear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Although it will sadly never happen, VAR needs binned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Extract from report on the BBC website: Premier League officials being allowed to travel abroad to officiate matches in other leagues will also be reviewed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 12 hours ago, Musketeer Gripweed said: Fair enough. I assume you have listened to the audio that been released, what do you think the VAR officials should have done after the Hawkeye employee had poined out they had royally messed it up? Also, Do you now think that statement is factually correct after listening to the audio? As you could see from the video, play had already restarted by the time the replay operator noticed the error, so there's not really a great deal the VAR, or anyone else could do at that stage. They could have stopped the game and spoken to people, but they couldn't change the decision at that point. I think the statement is factually accurate though. The goal was disallowed by the on-field officials, and VAR didn't intervene to change that decision. I think this statement was released about 30 minutes after the incident, so it's not clear whether the person who released the statement would even have known what happened. I have no idea how much contact they have with the referees during the game, I certainly don't think they have any discussions with them because that could be influencing the outcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 10 hours ago, Musketeer Gripweed said: From what I have read tonight, the referee didn't actually know the goal should have stood until half time, which I find surprising. As far as I'm aware, the ref doesn't hear the discussion that you heard on the audio, they have to press a button to speak to him. Otherwise he'd just constantly have a chirping in his head. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 10 hours ago, RawB93 said: Why does it matter that play had restarted? It was a goal so pull it back. I get that on this occasion nothing happened in the time they played on but that it could in other scenarios - however, is that really any different than if it had been a penalty incident, for example and Spurs go up the other end and score but then it doesn't count because it's pulled back for the penalty? The laws of the game say that once the referee has made a decision and play has restarted, the referee cannot change that decision. The difference in your scenario is that the game hasn't been stopped yet for the referee to have an opportunity to review it. Every incident is checked or reviewed at the next stoppage in play. In this case, play was stopped here after the goal, the check was carried out, and then the referee made a final decision. If you start allowing decisions to be changed again even after the referee has made a final decision, you're creating a scenario where players and supporters never have any certainty about anything. That goal your team scored 2 minutes ago? Maybe they're actually going to go back and disallow it after all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 10 hours ago, Molotov said: The Spurs (and Liverpool) bench were aware a goal was legitimately scored. I doubt either bench was aware that was the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, craigkillie said: I doubt either bench was aware that was the case. The benches all have monitors these days? Pretty sure they show footage from Sky/Premier Productions and they showed the replay (albeit without the lines added, but they weren't necessary in this case). Also seems weird saying the referee didn't know - not that I'm doubting what PGMOL are saying, it's just there did look to be a moment during a stop in play not long afterwards where the referee looked to go a bit pale as if he'd had some bad news. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Yellow card for Mac Allister No yellow card for Udogie Mistakes happen though and I am sure PGMOL are sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, Musketeer Gripweed said: Yellow card for Mac Allister No yellow card for Udogie Mistakes happen though and I am sure PGMOL are sorry. Mistakes do happen. Like calling Curtis Jones Alexis Mac Allister. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 22 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said: Mistakes do happen. Like calling Curtis Jones Alexis Mac Allister. Or Diogo Jota Curtis Jones... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, accies1874 said: Or Diogo Jota Curtis Jones... Indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 That was the joke FFS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eindhovendee Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 13 hours ago, Molotov said: There has been historic cases of “fair play” in North London before in the FA Cup pre VAR. The Spurs (and Liverpool) bench were aware a goal was legitimately scored. The right decision would have been to halt the game. Inform the ref. Who brings both managers and captains together and explain the situation. Big Ange and Son would I’m sure have allowed Liverpool to score a goal unopposed. This could have serious consequences for who wins the title. If Spurs win the title then it will be forever tarnished. I would love Spurs to win the league by a point from Liverpool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 13 hours ago, Molotov said: 1. Stop the clock as per rugby 2. Clear description from ref to VAR re context of decision 3. VAR finds footage and puts it on BIG screen in stadium 4. Ref makes final decision from BIG screen in consult with VAR 5. Ref restarts game. 6. Paying customers in ground feel involved with the process. 1. Punt VAR in the bin for being utter shite. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, virginton said: 1. Punt VAR in the bin for being utter shite. If only. As far as the Barclays goes, we are infinitely more likely to see increased VAR meddling and longer interventions as part of a general doubling down. A process likely to be accelerated by the shrill grievances of Klopp and the English Branch of Victims FC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 4 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said: Why would the VAR, AVAR and replay operator be looking at a live picture of the stadium though? The replay operator was getting the angles and point of contact ready and the VAR and AVAR would be looking at that. The audio from the referee and assistant to the VAR room wasn't 100% clear - it should be obvious from the fact that the linesman said "delaying, delaying" that he thought it was offside, but the referee saying "give it" didn't help (although the linesman did then say "coming back for the offside mate" in fairness). But a clear process would be something like they have in rugby "on field decision is offside - can you check" is cleat and unambiguous, and the VAR replying "check complete - you can award the goal" is the same. One person seems to say "on" but it's not clear if they mean onside or time on or play on or something else. I don't see how there was any part of that process that can be described as clear. Yeah ok I take your point. I do feel it was clear enough overall and the issue was a lack of attention but there's no harm in finding ways to improve clarity I suppose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 In rugby they are pretty clear when they go to the review The ref says a definitive thing "On-field decision is Try/No-Try" and they start from there. It also helps in rugby that the screens are in the ground and the on field ref and assistants can sort of oversee what the TMO is looking at. Make sure they are looking at the right thing or point out anything that is missed. "VAR: And stop. Check complete, check complete. That’s fine, perfect." At no point does the VAR say what the actual decision is. In this instance it seems like the VAR room was so quick to review the decision they missed the info that there was an offside given on the field. A situation that would easily be avoided if they had clear guidance on how to communicate decisions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 14 hours ago, Molotov said: 6. Paying customers in ground feel involved with the process. Agree with everything bar this. Why do people feel the need to be involved? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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