Injuries

[lubo_blaha]

7 hours ago, thruthenight said:

What'd he say, he's deleted it?

 

In terms of the 26 squad, while yes we should be optimising it, I don't think it's too much of an issue if we're drafting an U21 player in if our injury problem somehow gets even worse. Not all of those 26 are going to see game time during the tournament. I'll be surprised if 20 do. 

While I say that, and I know McBurnie's been generally shit in a Scotland shirt, I'd still take him at this point in time. Leave Kelly & Cooper at home, bring McBurnie, the squad looks reasonable.

Just posted a picture of himself playing for Scotland with no caption.

[Chripper]

4 hours ago, SH Panda said:

Can't speak to the other actions tho, and the interview on the last page far too long to actually watch. If he doesn't want to play for us fine, it's a loss but not a massive one.

He said that his priorities were getting Southampton promoted, then signing for them full time and then third, Scotland.

I'd place him in the same bracket as the likes of Jamie O'Hara, etc, who once skipped going to the u21 Euros with England because he'd rather go on holiday.

As far as the Bournemouth situation. It's not exactly a "Jerry Maguire" moment. It's football. You can barely get away with tackling anymore. The chances of him getting injured were 0.01%

Besides, it's not like he was potentially jeopardising a move to Real Madrid.

As a professional who earned a lot of money at Bournemouth, he had a moral obligation to sign a short term deal. He decided not to. He will never be forgiven by the Bournemouth fans, and he sure as hell won't be forgiven by the manager that he threw under the bus, his now Newcastle manager and then Bournemouth manager, Eddie Howe.

He's no loss at all. I'd rather call up Cameron from Dundee or Watson or Armstrong from Kilmarnock. I'm sure being called up would be the pinnacle of their career, as opposed to it being an inconvenience to Fraser.

[LiviLion]

5 hours ago, SH Panda said:

Can't speak to the other actions tho, and the interview on the last page far too long to actually watch.

The video is separated into parts, his small section about Scotland starts at 5:35 and is less than a minute.

The first thing he says is "This is not me not wanting to go" and he goes on to say "If I do [play again] I'll put on the jersey like I always do and it's pride and I'll play with my all", basically just saying the Euros coming up wasn't what he was thinking about when he signed for Southampton and the main thing on his mind was promotion and winning a new contract, if he gets called up for Scotland then great but if not then it is what it is. Didn't see any problem with it at all tbh, especially with it being on the club's own media.

Suppose moonhowlers think the only acceptable answer would have been "f**k your wee tin pot club, I only care about Scotland, freedom ya wee c**t"

Edited June 5 by LiviLion

[The Algebraist]

13 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

The video is separated into parts, his small section about Scotland starts at 5:35 and is less than a minute.

The first thing he says is "This is not me not wanting to go" and he goes on to say "If I do [play again] I'll put on the jersey like I always do and it's pride and I'll play with my all", basically just saying the Euros coming up wasn't what he was thinking about when he signed for Southampton and the main thing on his mind was promotion and winning a new contract, if he gets called up for Scotland then great but if not then it is what it is. Didn't see any problem with it at all tbh, especially with it being on the club's own media.

Suppose moonhowlers think the only acceptable answer would have been "f**k your wee tin pot club, I only care about Scotland, freedom ya wee c**t"

Agree that the reaction to that interview is bizarre. Clearly didn't cover himself in glory with the Newcastle thing but while I don't agree with it I can understand it.

The impression I get is that he sees football as a job. Most fans don't, but I bet many would if they were training everyday and having to keep themselves in serious shape.

[Butters Scotch]

10 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

The video is separated into parts, his small section about Scotland starts at 5:35 and is less than a minute.

The first thing he says is "This is not me not wanting to go" and he goes on to say "If I do [play again] I'll put on the jersey like I always do and it's pride and I'll play with my all", basically just saying the Euros coming up wasn't what he was thinking about when he signed for Southampton and the main thing on his mind was promotion and winning a new contract, if he gets called up for Scotland then great but if not then it is what it is. Didn't see any problem with it at all tbh, especially with it being on the club's own media.

Suppose moonhowlers think the only acceptable answer would have been "f**k your wee tin pot club, I only care about Scotland, freedom ya wee c**t"

Posters like @SlayerXshouldn't be taken seriously on here, pretty sure he's some kind of unhinged troll and has more than one account. 

Football is a short career and there limited time in the game to make as much money as possibly to set them up for life so I don't see the issue in Fraser declaring to not play for Bounemouth and risk having a lucrative contract tore up due to a bad injury he may sustain. 

If you're getting minutes and playing well for your club then you're more likely to be called up for your country and that was basically what Ryan Fraser was getting at in his interview. Before the squads were announced, Southampton were going for promotion so any player in that position would be focusing their attention on that first and foremost. 

 

[Gordopolis]

Whilst it's disappointing that Doak has withdrawn, it is pleasing to see Conway coming in. Tbh it's probably a sensible outcome. Conway's played a full season and did quite well in the championship. Doak has a much higher ceiling but he's clearly not fit and hasn't played since December

Ideally I'd have both, but glad we've replaced one promising youthful forward with another, as opposed to bringing in someone semi crocked because they have a bit more experience (e.g. McBurnie)

All that said, I'd have no problems if McBurnie or Stewart were added too. Feels like there is space for another fwd option.

[craigkillie]

I wouldn't see the point in adding a fourth striker when we're already missing two of our original selection (Dykes and Brown), especially when we're likely to start every game with just one and won't have more than two on the park at any time. I think there's much more of a case for adding a wide player similar to Doak who might have offered something a wee bit different off the bench, but it seems like that's not going to happen now barring another injury.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I wouldn't see the point in adding a fourth striker when we're already missing two of our original selection (Dykes and Brown), especially when we're likely to start every game with just one and won't have more than two on the park at any time. I think there's much more of a case for adding a wide player similar to Doak who might have offered something a wee bit different off the bench, but it seems like that's not going to happen now barring another injury.

Agreed on this.  There's a good article on the BBC website right now about Albania's recent improvement.  Given their diaspora, they scoured the world looking for a left-sided winger to allow them to play a certain way.  Since discovering their Korean export, they've markedly improved.

We could really do with finding another fast attacker - both to give some balance in attack if we opted for a 4-3-3 with Doak, but also to give some depth when needing other options.  If we need a Plan B in June, our replacements are very like-for-like.

Robertson and Patterson/Hickey do a decent job of providing width, and though they aren't lightening quick, they're still quite a bit faster than the majority of the side.  Losing both Hickey and Patterson has done more to damage our approach than losing any other single player.  Our right-side is back to where it was under SOD - solid enough, but offers very little in attack which allows the opposition to double up on Robertson without leaving themselves exposed on the other side.

[eez-eh]

14 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Agreed on this.  There's a good article on the BBC website right now about Albania's recent improvement.  Given their diaspora, they scoured the world looking for a left-sided winger to allow them to play a certain way.  Since discovering their Korean export, they've markedly improved.

We could really do with finding another fast attacker - both to give some balance in attack if we opted for a 4-3-3 with Doak, but also to give some depth when needing other options.  If we need a Plan B in June, our replacements are very like-for-like.

Robertson and Patterson/Hickey do a decent job of providing width, and though they aren't lightening quick, they're still quite a bit faster than the majority of the side.  Losing both Hickey and Patterson has done more to damage our approach than losing any other single player.  Our right-side is back to where it was under SOD - solid enough, but offers very little in attack which allows the opposition to double up on Robertson without leaving themselves exposed on the other side.

Do they? Hickey cuts inside an awful lot. Whereas while Patterson gets forward on the wing his final ball has been woeful in his recent appearances so there’s been little benefit to it.

We miss Hickey but I’d say it’s more for other reasons than width.

[accies1874]

On Fraser, I noticed during the play-off final celebrations that he turned down Stuart Armstrong's offer to hold the trophy while up in the stands. I'm not sure it's fair drawing any conclusions from a tiny isolated interaction, but I thought that it tallied with his approach to Scotland too. He gives off the persona of being a bit nonplussed about football - especially the emotional side of it. 

[2426255]

14 hours ago, SlayerX said:

Only played Fraser because he needed to. Then discarding him after that.

Clarke was short on players in 2022 and so decided to call up a 'bad egg' you say? Clarke is short on players now, but has decided not to call up the same 'bad egg'. 

Similar scenarios, two different outcomes. Perhaps it's other factors: club performance or game time. Don't forget he was called up twice: in September and November of 2022, so not just discarded after that.

His selection ties in closely with club game time until he joined Southampton at which point we were cruising to qualification. It also ties in seamlessly with Clarke's comments about Fraser losing any loyalty and having to earn his place back via his club.

This idea has no substance, nothing to back it up and the evidence against it has some merit before you get to how out of character it would be for Clarke to do that.

Edited June 5 by 2426255

[Chripper]

3 hours ago, accies1874 said:

On Fraser, I noticed during the play-off final celebrations that he turned down Stuart Armstrong's offer to hold the trophy while up in the stands. I'm not sure it's fair drawing any conclusions from a tiny isolated interaction, but I thought that it tallied with his approach to Scotland too. He gives off the persona of being a bit nonplussed about football - especially the emotional side of it. 

Oh really?

Yeah. It seems consistent with his general behaviour and demeanor.

[Chripper]

2 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Clarke was short on players in 2022 and so decided to call up a 'bad egg' you say? Clarke is short on players now, but has decided not to call up the same 'bad egg'. 

Similar scenarios, two different outcomes. Perhaps it's other factors: club performance or game time. Don't forget he was called up twice: in September and November of 2022, so not just discarded after that.

His selection ties in closely with club game time until he joined Southampton at which point we were cruising to qualification. It also ties in seamlessly with Clarke's comments about Fraser losing any loyalty and having to earn his place back via his club.

This idea has no substance, nothing to back it up and the evidence against it has some merit before you get to how out of character it would be for Clarke to do that.

The caveat being that there's two years of water under the bridge.

Plus, the carrot of playing at a major tournament.

The last time Fraser was involved in the Scotland squad, or at least a competitive match, was 2022.

Clarke must've decided then and there that Fraser's time was up and he probably adopted a "no a-holes" policy.

Must be why Ryan Fraser is on the outside. Still, he has train with the Newcastle kids when he comes back from his holidays.

Forrest cancels his family holiday to join up with the Scotland squad, whereas Fraser would rather train with Newcastle than play for Scotland.

Spot the difference.

Edited June 5 by SlayerX

[2426255]

1 hour ago, SlayerX said:

The caveat being that there's two years of water under the bridge.

Plus, the carrot of playing at a major tournament.

The last time Fraser was involved in the Scotland squad, or at least a competitive match, was 2022.

Clarke must've decided then and there that Fraser's time was up and he probably adopted a "no a-holes" policy.

Must be why Ryan Fraser is on the outside. Still, he has train with the Newcastle kids when he comes back from his holidays.

Forrest cancels his family holiday to join up with the Scotland squad, whereas Fraser would rather train with Newcastle than play for Scotland.

Spot the difference.

So he took Fraser back into the fold, had him in the squad and played him in all 3 games against Ukraine and Ireland in the Nations league and then against Turkey in November and subsequently adopted a no a-holes policy? 

Believe what you wish, but what you're saying doesn't really fit with the reality. Remember the Ukraine game was one where Clarke was under pressure having been knocked out of the World Cup play-offs in the prior camp. Doesn't stack up for me what you're saying tbh.

Edited June 5 by 2426255

[Stevie Kirk]

I’m not really getting the hate for Ryan Fraser either. He has generally offered something every time he has played. I accept he isn’t a haggis munching crawl over broken glass to snort  Irn bru kind of guy but who cares.

Lets face it he would walk into the first 11 of  every team in our league .

[JS_FFC]

9 hours ago, accies1874 said:

On Fraser, I noticed during the play-off final celebrations that he turned down Stuart Armstrong's offer to hold the trophy while up in the stands. I'm not sure it's fair drawing any conclusions from a tiny isolated interaction, but I thought that it tallied with his approach to Scotland too. He gives off the persona of being a bit nonplussed about football - especially the emotional side of it. 

f**k me. This has got to me the most terminally online football post I’ve ever read.

 

8pm next Friday can’t come quick enough just so the endless discourse can end and the games can start. 

[accies1874]

11 hours ago, JS_FFC said:

f**k me. This has got to me the most terminally online football post I’ve ever read.

 

8pm next Friday can’t come quick enough just so the endless discourse can end and the games can start. 

Shut up

[eez-eh]

I don’t think it’s out of question that something has been said in private since the Turkey game. Morgan getting the call up ahead of him is a bit of a surprise for Clarke.

[2426255]

32 minutes ago, SH Panda said:

Clearly there wasn't a 0.01% chance he would get injured.

And the season before he was being linked with Arsenal and did get an excellent contract with Newcastle so it clearly did work out for him at least in the short term.

He's not a slave, he can reject a contract extension. If the fans can't get over that then I suggest they need some perspective.

The Newcastle move didn't work out but his actions at the end of his Bournemouth career were actually fine and perfectly justified.

Looks like Clark is done with him - is what it is, I expect he will be a bit disappointed with how his caterer has planned out. He is minted though so maybe he won't be too bothered. Needs to find a new club in the summer, maybe doesn't want to get injured in a tournament....

His actions at Scotland were not fine, but potentially understandable. Perhaps a miscalculation on his part. We were close to qualification for the play-offs with a game away in Moldova to come (in which we sealed it). He may have wanted to put his best foot forward at Newcastle at the time. It's not like he was pictured jet skiing or on the piss. I understand it's taken as a slight on Scotland, but may not have been intended that way.

The biggest unanswered question is why he was brought back a year after the incident, for two camps in a row. If there was a fallout and it hadn't been repaired then why do that? Especially in games where Clarke needed a good camp after the disappointment of the WC play-off. If it had been repaired then why does it affect things now? Anything is possible to fill the gaps because no-one knows on these board and so we get the usual speculation and supposition. 

Fraser was injured for a long time after the Nov-22 camp and that's when he has fallen out of the picture: In the first half of 2023 when Scotland were at a peak. He resurfaced at Southampton at the start of the 23/24 season and it's only been since Xmas that people have been talking about him and connecting dots all over the place.

Edited June 6 by 2426255

[Londonwell]

Can’t spot Armstrong at the open training session today. Must be a considerable doubt if still unable to train with the team.