The Autumn Statement

[Suspect Device]

What bribes can Jeremy c**t conjure up in a futile attempt to improve their electoral hopes for next year?

Inheritance tax is the one that's been widely touted but I can't see that being a massive vote winner despite The Telegraph and The Express banging on about the 'death' tax being the most hated. National Insurance is also being rumoured to change.

Doing something about the tax thresholds that have been frozen and dragged more and more people into the higher tax bands might make some people better off but it's not a sexy policy because most folk don't understand how it affects them. Changing the rates is easier to understand but they seem to be more likely to fiddle with national insurance.

Most importantly, will it affect the way you intend to vote next year?  Daft question for most on here. 

 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

14 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

What bribes can Jeremy c**t conjure up in a futile attempt to improve their electoral hopes for next year?

Inheritance tax is the one that's been widely touted but I can't see that being a massive vote winner despite The Telegraph and The Express banging on about the 'death' tax being the most hated. National Insurance is also being rumoured to change.

Doing something about the tax thresholds that have been frozen and dragged more and more people into the higher tax bands might make some people better off but it's not a sexy policy because most folk don't understand how it affects them. Changing the rates is easier to understand but they seem to be more likely to fiddle with national insurance.

Most importantly, will it affect the way you intend to vote next year?  Daft question for most on here. 

 

 

I'm sure many middle earners know exactly how the 40% (41% in Scotland) threshold affects them. It won't make a difference at the bottom end for those below the threshold though.

[Suspect Device]

2 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I'm sure many middle earners know exactly how the 40% (41% in Scotland) threshold affects them. It won't make a difference at the bottom end for those below the threshold though.

I'm actually talking about the threshold (top of band) when the 40% (or 42% in Scotland) kicks in. I'm not sure most folk understand how not changing the threshold has slowly dragged more and more people into that band. A cut in the rate always gets more of a headline.

England.

Scotland.

Saying that, I don't think enough people understand tax, inflation or even percentages.

[Suspect Device]

I'm accidentally proving my own point because I had no idea the thresholds were so different between England and Scotland but I did know the tax rate. 

Edit: I can see this getting bogged down in a Scotland v England tax debate ignoring any stuff that is announced today.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Suspect Device

[resk]

Inheritance tax is a funny one.  The thresholds are so high for actually paying it (if you die married and own your own home it can be £1m, and this excludes pensions) that only 4% of estates actually pay it.  But it's become this widely hated thing for people that will never even get close to having to pay it.  Seems like another example of Tory c***s and their complicit media convincing the idiot public that they should oppose something that is actually good for them, like the EU.  

Whatever happens today won't affect the way I vote in the next election, no.  Even if the Tory government do something that might be to my own personal benefit, I don't vote for them.  f**k that.  

 

[orfc]

24 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

I'm accidentally proving my own point because I had no idea the thresholds were so different between England and Scotland but I did know the tax rate. 

Edit: I can see this getting bogged down in a Scotland v England tax debate ignoring any stuff that is announced today.

The insidious bit is that the 12% NI rate carries on to 50K and then becomes 2%. South of the border that means you don't pay 40% tax and 12% NI at the same time, but up here you do between 43 and 50K, in fact the combined marginal rate becomes 54%. I don't mind paying tax but when it turns out you're not even keeping half of what you earn you do wonder why you bother, it's a psychological thing.

[Left Back]

14 minutes ago, orfc said:

The insidious bit is that the 12% NI rate carries on to 50K and then becomes 2%. South of the border that means you don't pay 40% tax and 12% NI at the same time, but up here you do between 43 and 50K, in fact the combined marginal rate becomes 54%. I don't mind paying tax but when it turns out you're not even keeping half of what you earn you do wonder why you bother, it's a psychological thing.

The next trick is reducing your personal allowance one you earn £100k.  It goes down by £1 for every £2 you earn.

This has the net effect of making your marginal rate of tax 65% (62% in England) for earnings between £100k and £125k.

[Michael W]

Seems there will be a cut in NI. A very strange thing to cut because NI is associated with the things that people actually like (pensions, NHS). Obviously these things are funded out of general taxation and not just NI, but the association lingers. A bit like inheritance tax - everyone hates it, but very few people end up actually paying it. 

 I will guess the rate of NI will be cut from 12% to 11%. The difference in cutting this will be barely noticeable for many. Tax cuts are nice but often they don't make much of a difference. Certainly not in the context of high inflation and higher interest rates. 

I did wonder if Rishi Sunak's previous pledge to cut the basic rate of income tax to 19% would make a return, but it doesn't seem to have. The more appropriate course of action (IMO) would've been to raise the personal allowance by 10% and acknowledge the impact of inflation. Leaving the higher rate band where it was last year was a genius move by Hunt to save the government money it has to be said - barely anyone noticed. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Michael W

[Melanius Mullarkey]

I long for the day when it was all about beer and tabs.

 

[Suspect Device]

Interesting opinion why it's NI and income tax he's possibly changing.

Unusual that it does not affect pensioners at all since they are usually the target audience since they vote. And often vote Tory.

[Salt n Vinegar]

If the Chancer of the Exchequer has headroom in the budget he should improve public services rather than cut tax.

As to voting intentions... would tax cuts make me vote Tory? Ermm ..... No, no 'king way.

If he's opposed to public spending and simply refuses to use the "headroom" to improve public services, as an alternative he could always take a quick look at the national debt which AIUI is over £2,500 billion.  

[coprolite]

33 minutes ago, Left Back said:

The next trick is reducing your personal allowance one you earn £100k.  It goes down by £1 for every £2 you earn.

This has the net effect of making your marginal rate of tax 65% (62% in England) for earnings between £100k and £125k.

At that level though, tough titties. Similar marginal increase between £50-60k if you have kids and get child benefit. It's about 60% with two kids. Also kind of tough titties imo. 

Also high effective  marginal rates as tax credits or benefits are withdrawn (not all tax, but net fiscal transfer is the same thing really). Bit more of an issue but it's hard to see how to avoid it. 

[Left Back]

14 minutes ago, coprolite said:

At that level though, tough titties. Similar marginal increase between £50-60k if you have kids and get child benefit. It's about 60% with two kids. Also kind of tough titties imo. 

Also high effective  marginal rates as tax credits or benefits are withdrawn (not all tax, but net fiscal transfer is the same thing really). Bit more of an issue but it's hard to see how to avoid it. 

Most people probably think “tough titties” and f**k the people that earn that much without really thinking about it.

I suspect people that do earn that much don’t actually pay that marginal rate.  As someone said earlier psychologically would you want to hand over 2/3rds of your earnings to the government or keep it all by sticking it into your pension which therefore reduces the overall tax take.  High rates don’t always have the intended effect.

[coprolite]

42 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Most people probably think “tough titties” and f**k the people that earn that much without really thinking about it.

I suspect people that do earn that much don’t actually pay that marginal rate.  As someone said earlier psychologically would you want to hand over 2/3rds of your earnings to the government or keep it all by sticking it into your pension which therefore reduces the overall tax take.  High rates don’t always have the intended effect.

There might be a few nerds that do that but most people will take the cash. The government's not taking 2/3 of their pay, only their pay rise. 

[Florentine_Pogen]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/jeremy-hunt-budget-economic-fantasy-trap-labour

"But the real function of the projected spending squeeze is as a trap for Labour. If the opposition rejects the Tory trajectory, it will be accused of planning a profligate spree with public money. And if it pledges adherence to impossible targets, it will enter government with its hands bound too tight to deliver prompt satisfaction to the people who voted for it.

Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves have so far operated a sensible policy of not walking into traps of this kind. That approach restored swing voters’ trust in Labour as stewards of the economy. But it tests the patience of an activist base that sees reversal of austerity as a moral imperative and can smell the incipient disappointment in promises of fiscal discipline."

[MazzyStar]

Just get rid of money. Solves all problems. 

[coprolite]

The planned rise in the minimum wage is good news as is extending it to 21 year olds. Unless you’re an exploitative employer of course. I don’t understand the logic behind any age discrimination in the minimum though and it would be good to see that binned too. 
 

Wonder if they’re going to do something retrograde on fuel duty in line with their recent f**k-the-planet appeal to Telegraph readers. Hopefully that would cost just too much. Could probably knock a couple of p off petrol by abolishing disability benefits though, he might do that. Lifestyle choice innit.

 

[Suspect Device]

3 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkay said:

I long for the day when it was all about beer and tabs.

 

Freezing duty on all alcohol. 

You'll be voting Tory next year? 

[Michael W]

8 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

Freezing duty on all alcohol. 

You'll be voting Tory next year? 

There was already a large increase in duty on spirits in August this year.

[MazzyStar]

22 minutes ago, Michael W said:

There was already a large increase in duty on spirits in August this year.

But not on lager?