Livingston v Killie

[Rugbypark]

Over 10k at Dundee Utd v Raith today. That’s why we need this Mickey Mouse team relegated asap. 

[Estragon]

15 minutes ago, Rugbypark said:

Over 10k at Dundee Utd v Raith today. That’s why we need this Mickey Mouse team relegated asap. 

The Falkirk argument. Makes you wonder why folk bother playing actual football matches. Could decide the leagues with an annual survey.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Estragon

[larry the lion]

2 hours ago, Rugbypark said:

Over 10k at Dundee Utd v Raith today. That’s why we need this Mickey Mouse team relegated asap. 

Sorry, you need a team relegated? Why?

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by larry the lion

[Freedom Farter]

6 hours ago, Dav nan Gael said:

Yet just watched DMs interview and it's praising Guthrie

In the Scottish Premiership, Guthrie now has 30 appearances and over 20 hours of playing time in which he has contributed zero goals and one assist.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[VincentGuerin]

On 14/12/2023 at 15:48, VincentGuerin said:

This is an intruguing fixture. It could potentially be the worst game of football ever played.

So?

[LIVIFOREVER]

13 hours ago, Dav nan Gael said:

The team that finished the game,should hav started it......

We looked virtually back to our old self's,we looked a threat and all of a sudden everyone was lifted !!

Sean Kelly,Andrew Shinnie and Guthrie,should never be starting a game for me,the difference was there for all to see.

Brandon and Bradley also better than any of the above 3.

Yet just watched DMs interview and it's praising Guthrie,putting the boot into Brucey (x3 times or more)about the penalty .

At least he praised the support this time.

Any other manager would be facing the door,with the run he's on,but unsurprisingly he is not.

Which alludes to something amiss behind closed doors .

I said at HT we should be taking Kelly off for Anderson and moving Pittman back into DM, and was shocked to see Martindale actually doing it. The irony gods took the piss right out of us though, the very player we wanted to come on missed the penalty, and the player taken off for him is the last one to score a goal for us, from the penalty spot. You really couldn't make this pish up just now, nothing is going for us.

 

On the game, thought the wind made it impossible for us to play Martindale's long ball tactics, but we still kept trying it, the only time we had decent passages of play was when we kept it on the deck passing the ball. Killie on the other hand played the conditions, with the wind behind them they just booted it up the right wing every time they cleared their lines (something we should be doing when we boot it up the pitch, been saying for ages now we need to put it up the channels instead of straight down the middle to Guthrie). Reminded me of how we played when we first came up, get it into the opposition's half and don't give them any chance to press us and win the ball in our half. They were firing a lot of balls into our box, a couple flashed across the 6 yard box but mostly we dealt with them well. So defensively we def have improved with Ayo back in the team. Devlin's lack of pace is being shown up though, the Killie player was ripping him all game.

2nd half Anderson was pressing their defence and forcing clearances being put out of play, rather than them having time to pick a pass up the right wing, like they did 1st half, and i thought it was a bit more even of a game, got really open at the end with both teams getting up the pitch, and we were at least getting balls into their box, with a few hand ball claims, and eventually we got one for a penalty. Obileye was looking like taking it, and i was thinking ffs he's missed about 4 now, then Anderson took the ball, and again i had no confidence he was scoring, his last miss was a poor attempt, only players to have scored from the spot any time they've taken them are Shinnie, who was subbed, and St Kelly, who wasn't on the pitch, i'd have subbed him on right there to take it, but then if he missed Martindale would've got pelters for putting a player on who hadn't touched the ball to take a pen.

Any other time a point against a team a lot better than us would've been a good result, but the position we're in we're desperate for wins, and missing that penalty really makes it annoying we didn't take all 3pts.

[LIVIFOREVER]

17 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

So?

Nope, the game at Tynecastle was far worse.

[crispy]

I think the game Derek Adams was at might’ve been worse. Some rant from him!

Edited December 17, 2023 by crispy

[Livi]

51 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

I said at HT we should be taking Kelly off for Anderson and moving Pittman back into DM, and was shocked to see Martindale actually doing it. 

Martindale said in his post match interview this was due to Kelly i think having a tight hamstring.

He was always bringing on Anderson so just done it earlier. He went on to say had Kelly not been injured he may not have been the player coming off for Anderson.

I agree with @Dav nan Gaeli thought he threw Anderson under a bus publicly  and he may need him to be on the top of his game on Weds night.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Livi

[larry the lion]

too few players trying to do too much. Guthrie and Ayo are not the guys. They both force Davie to make additional tweaks to allow them to play. In Ayo's case, he persisted with the three at the back, so he has to protect AO on both sides. Sean Kelly was on to provide a defensive Midfield barrier again to protect Ayo. We didn't need him on the park, we needed Pittman to be back with mid field, dispossessing and disrupting as that is what he does best. We needed some creativity in the mid to put decent balls through to Anderson, on the deck and often through balls, one-twos etc (the other Kelly). Nouble was RWB due the their number 3's physicality I suspect, or it might have been better to swap Penrice and Nouble to allow them to play as inside forwards, cutting in to their good foot and supporting Guthrie in attack. Not Pitts trying to take the glancing headers and break the defence, it simply didn't work and Pitts was almost always chasing his tail as he was too far forward when play broke the other way.

What a difference when the subs came on, surely that must make Davie think twice. The stats on Guthrie that someone posted earlier are damning, it can't be ignored. Is he a striker? What would he be like in some other totally different position (like McPake? try something else ?)

Anderson seemed to rush the penalty, don't know why, but feel for the guy. 

Thought Devlin had a poor game, looked like he was knackered by half time, he was slow and out of position a lot.

On the last three performances I'd say there is a positive trend, but we need a spark or an effing good win, not sure where that will come from. Next 4 games are Aberdeen, Celtic, St. Johnston and Motherwell.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by larry the lion

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, larry the lion said:

too few players trying to do too much. Guthrie and Ayo are not the guys. They both force Davie to make additional tweaks to allow them to play. In Ayo's case, he persisted with the three at the back, so he has to protect AO on both sides. Sean Kelly was on to provide a defensive Midfield barrier again to protect Ayo. We didn't need him on the park, we needed Pittman to be back with mid field, dispossessing and disrupting as that is what he does best. We needed some creativity in the mid to put decent balls through to Anderson, on the deck and often through balls, one-twos etc (the other Kelly). Nouble was RWB due the their number 3's physicality I suspect, or it might have been better to swap Penrice and Nouble to allow them to play as inside forwards, cutting in to their good foot and supporting Guthrie in attack. Not Pitts trying to take the glancing headers and break the defence, it simply didn't work and Pitts was almost always chasing his tail as he was too far forward when play broke the other way.

What a difference when the subs came on, surely that must make Davie think twice. The stats on Guthrie that someone posted earlier are damning, it can't be ignored. Is he a striker? What would he be like in some other totally different position (like McPake? try something else ?)

Anderson seemed to rush the penalty, don't know why, but feel for the guy. 

Thought Devlin had a poor game, looked like he was knackered by half time, he was slow and out of position a lot.

On the last three performances I'd say there is a positive trend, but we need a spark or an effing good win, not sure where that will come from. Next 4 games are Aberdeen, Celtic, St. Johnston and Motherwell.

 

Can see what you mean but without Ayo we were so poor defending balls into the box, even when reverting to a back 4, also think he gives us a good long range passer, which used properly would set our WB's up with balls down the channels.

I see Guthrie more as a Lee Miller type player, to link up with AM's and a more mobile striker like Anderson, Miller didn't score many goals either, but was a key part of us winning promotion, linking up with Hardie, then the AM's in the play offs when Hardie was injured. We need to play it on the deck more though, like we did against Hibs in both games this season.

Edited December 17, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[craigkillie]

19 hours ago, Rugbypark said:

Over 10k at Dundee Utd v Raith today. That’s why we need this Mickey Mouse team relegated asap. 

There were 10,000 fans there because it was a match between two title contenders. If it was 6th v 10th in the Premiership it would be far fewer than that.

[Freedom Farter]

2 hours ago, larry the lion said:

too few players trying to do too much. Guthrie and Ayo are not the guys. They both force Davie to make additional tweaks to allow them to play. In Ayo's case, he persisted with the three at the back, so he has to protect AO on both sides. Sean Kelly was on to provide a defensive Midfield barrier again to protect Ayo. We didn't need him on the park, we needed Pittman to be back with mid field, dispossessing and disrupting as that is what he does best. We needed some creativity in the mid to put decent balls through to Anderson, on the deck and often through balls, one-twos etc (the other Kelly). Nouble was RWB due the their number 3's physicality I suspect, or it might have been better to swap Penrice and Nouble to allow them to play as inside forwards, cutting in to their good foot and supporting Guthrie in attack. Not Pitts trying to take the glancing headers and break the defence, it simply didn't work and Pitts was almost always chasing his tail as he was too far forward when play broke the other way.

What a difference when the subs came on, surely that must make Davie think twice. The stats on Guthrie that someone posted earlier are damning, it can't be ignored. Is he a striker? What would he be like in some other totally different position (like McPake? try something else ?)

Anderson seemed to rush the penalty, don't know why, but feel for the guy. 

Thought Devlin had a poor game, looked like he was knackered by half time, he was slow and out of position a lot.

On the last three performances I'd say there is a positive trend, but we need a spark or an effing good win, not sure where that will come from. Next 4 games are Aberdeen, Celtic, St. Johnston and Motherwell.

 

I disagree on Obileye. I think he's a difference maker for us. While its true that playing middle of three centre backs is his optimum role, he's still very capable as one of the centre back pairing in a back four. The move to a back three this season was done for a few reasons, not just to better accommodate Obileye. 

Nouble at right wing back was because Killie use lop-sided wing backs. Armstrong on the right is much more attacking than Ndaba on the left. Martindale's thinking will've been that Nouble can therefore get high on the right and take the game to Ndaba down that flank, sometimes supported by Nottingham. We also saw Nouble used at right wing back against St Mirren for the same reason. McMenamin on the right is far more attacking than Tanser on the left. So again, Nouble was supposed to be able to push high on Tanser, pinning him back. There's logic to this but I still think its a waste of Nouble. He should instead be played in a front two alongside Anderson.

On your point about wing backs playing on their opposite side, we saw that when Montaño came on. He was used on the right a few times earlier in the season but it was always against packed defences where he ended up just dribbling infield into traffic. Yesterday the game was stretched by the time he came on which left space for him to dribble into. He had that one good burst centrally but fluffed his pass to Anderson. 

I agree on Devlin. He lacks pace and a different ref may've sent him off for his foul on Armstrong. I'm not especially concerned, though. The more settled our back three becomes the more Devlin will benefit. Alan Lithgow showed pace isn't always needed in that position.

[NFL12]

21 hours ago, Rugbypark said:

Over 10k at Dundee Utd v Raith today. That’s why we need this Mickey Mouse team relegated asap. 

I'd much rather St Johnstone went doon. 

[Squirrelhumper]

On 17/12/2023 at 17:38, NFL12 said:

I'd much rather St Johnstone went doon. 

Nah, i don't mind a day out in Perth. Good day on train/bus and plenty of decent pubs. 

Livingston is none of these .