Celtic V Rangers - Sat 30th December

[craigkillie]

59 minutes ago, AJF said:

They would only have checked for offside if they review the footage of the handball and deem it to be a foul. They would then go back and check for any fouls in the build up (the offside) that would supersede the handball.

The review took all of, what, a minute? I’m not sure that would be enough time to review the different angles of the handball, then go back through the build up and draw the offside lines, which is probably why that image was only offered up 30 minutes after the event.

The actual VAR branded images of offside decisions regularly take ages to actually make it to the broadcast, even in cases where you literally watch them drawing the lines live. I suspect there's some software they have to be passed through to generate the final images with the red and blue lines and so on.

EDIT: In fact, the Spain v Scotland game is a perfect example of this (albeit from a different competition with different graphics etc). The on-field decision absolutely was given as an offside, there was footage of the referee restarting play with an indirect free-kick, but it took an age for the image showing Hendry was offside to surface in the broadcast, which was why there was so much speculation in between.

If there was a suspicion of an offside in the VAR room then they may well have done the offside check first, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to do it in that order, since both checks would have to be done anyway before they could give a penalty.

Edited December 31, 2023 by craigkillie

[willywastecoat]

22 minutes ago, AJF said:

but just sub the decision from a disallowed goal to a disallowed penalty.

So not the exact same, you're grasping M8, I still think Scotland's goal should've stood giving off-side for a player that was no where near the ball is a very extreme example.
Plus lets be honest the keeper wasn't anywhere near it either.

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by willywastecoat

[miketheheadlesschicken]

Showing the image of Sima being offside doesn’t mean that they changed the reason for not awarding the penalty. The SFA have already said that VAR didn’t view it as a clear and obvious error.

[velo army]

@AJF apologies for the lack of clarity but I wasn't referring to the match thread, rather the Twitter sphere and general media. Sky were all over it, even showing it in the second half in case Rangers fans were at risk of moving on from it.

It's where we are now that an arm can come up accidentally and nudge the ball and it's a penalty. An awful corruption of the spirits of the laws, frankly. 

I do agree with VincentGuerin that nowadays "match events" is a synonym for refereeing decisions. On this thread there hasn't been a lot of chat about Gers' tactics or your midfield passing being shocking at times (and at fucking chest height). Your finishing was terrible and is the main reason you got nothing. The penalty decision is being disproportionately focussed on.

[kingjoey]

28 minutes ago, AJF said:

Quite possibly, I’m just going from memory where I recall they were writing to UEFA about it.

They didn't write to UEFA.

[rainbowrising]

7 minutes ago, miketheheadlesschicken said:

Showing the image of Sima being offside doesn’t mean that they changed the reason for not awarding the penalty. The SFA have already said that VAR didn’t view it as a clear and obvious error.

Sevco fans can't believe a game went by without them getting a penalty. If VAR had been called in the Ref would review the build up and offside awarded. 

I see Balogun is filmed clearly spitting at fans as he left the pitch. 

 

[bennett]

38 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

Would it? Or because it the VAR decision was not to give a penalty do they stick with the onfield decision?

That's a genuine question, I don't know the answer.

Ultimately, not to award the penalty was the right call. Rangers jumping up and down, demanding the audio doesn't change that. If there were problems, that's for the SFA to deal with, not Rangers. 

 

celtic player punches the ball out of play, no penalty. 

30 minutes later we're told that Sima was offside before the penalty call and that's why it wasn't given. 

2 hours later we're told that Colum believed that the ref never made a clear and obvious error as Johnstons hand was in a natural position and didn't need to be looked at again.

 

Every other team in the country would be asking questions in those circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AJF]

7 minutes ago, velo army said:

@AJF apologies for the lack of clarity but I wasn't referring to the match thread, rather the Twitter sphere and general media. Sky were all over it, even showing it in the second half in case Rangers fans were at risk of moving on from it.

It's where we are now that an arm can come up accidentally and nudge the ball and it's a penalty. An awful corruption of the spirits of the laws, frankly. 

I do agree with VincentGuerin that nowadays "match events" is a synonym for refereeing decisions. On this thread there hasn't been a lot of chat about Gers' tactics or your midfield passing being shocking at times (and at fucking chest height). Your finishing was terrible and is the main reason you got nothing. The penalty decision is being disproportionately focussed on.

No need for apologies mate, totally appreciate where you are coming from.

Personally I’m more irked by Celtic not having a man sent off rather than the ultimately correct call not to award the penalty. But appreciate people see the fouls differently.

ETA: in terms of the criticisms they are justified, although I really don’t think there was too much between the sides. Sterling seemed fine in midfield, it was further forward I felt most of our issues were. We had probably 3 chances where we really should’ve scored but squandered it which ultimately means you deserve nothing.

I am hopeful that Rodger’s post match comments come back to bite him though, he seems to have decided that he has now seen off our manager despite Celtic not exactly being great yesterday. The potential gap is 2 points if we are lucky enough to win both our games in hand. Seems pretty early to come out with that kind of stuff.

Edited December 31, 2023 by AJF

[kingjoey]

4 minutes ago, velo army said:

@AJF apologies for the lack of clarity but I wasn't referring to the match thread, rather the Twitter sphere and general media. Sky were all over it, even showing it in the second half in case Rangers fans were at risk of moving on from it.

It's where we are now that an arm can come up accidentally and nudge the ball and it's a penalty. An awful corruption of the spirits of the laws, frankly. 

I do agree with VincentGuerin that nowadays "match events" is a synonym for refereeing decisions. On this thread there hasn't been a lot of chat about Gers' tactics or your midfield passing being shocking at times (and at fucking chest height). Your finishing was terrible and is the main reason you got nothing. The penalty decision is being disproportionately focussed on.

Just what I was thinking. Clemente and Rangers heavily deflecting on the basic fact that they were not good enough to not lose the game.

[Peil]

I think we shoud all be thankful that it isn't the ballboys being blamed

[kingjoey]

1 minute ago, bennett said:

 

celtic player punches the ball

Every other team in the country would be asking questions in those circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aberdeen have a penalty claim at yesterday's match. "Might have been given, might not. Let's move on."

[gannonball]

There has (rightly) been scrutiny of late over Sevco not conceding a penalty in 80 odd games which must be a record in senior football so they were always going to attempt some sort of deflection after the derby if they lost. Moaning about decisions which were ultimately correct though really does the opposite of what they were trying to achieve. 

[miketheheadlesschicken]

4 minutes ago, bennett said:

30 minutes later we're told that Sima was offside before the penalty call and that's why it wasn't given. 

Who said that the penalty wasn’t given because of the offside? I haven’t seen that.

[scottsdad]

Just checking to see if "if this was any other game that would be a penalty/red card" was still the main theme.

 Yup.

[throbber]

45 minutes ago, AJF said:

Despite small signs of an improvement, yesterday just shows how far off it Dessers reslly is. Clinical finishing the real difference yesterday.

Yeah that chance he squandered was criminal, awful decision making and just looked out of his depth. He isn’t exactly young either. A serious lack of firepower up front.

[bennett]

4 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Aberdeen have a penalty claim at yesterday's match. "Might have been given, might not. Let's move on."

You've had plenty to say about decisions in the past, saying "let's move on" doesn't really wash.

 

[willywastecoat]

5 minutes ago, velo army said:

@AJF apologies for the lack of clarity but I wasn't referring to the match thread, rather the Twitter sphere and general media. Sky were all over it, even showing it in the second half in case Rangers fans were at risk of moving on from it.

It's where we are now that an arm can come up accidentally and nudge the ball and it's a penalty. An awful corruption of the spirits of the laws, frankly. 

I do agree with VincentGuerin that nowadays "match events" is a synonym for refereeing decisions. On this thread there hasn't been a lot of chat about Gers' tactics or your midfield passing being shocking at times (and at fucking chest height). Your finishing was terrible and is the main reason you got nothing. The penalty decision is being disproportionately focussed on.

The game itself was poor M8,Celtic giving the ball away just as much as sevco,Celtic's season so far has been a failure, St Brendan is a downgrade on Ange.
IMO, Celtic will be better after the break.

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, throbber said:

Yeah that chance he squandered was criminal, awful decision making and just looked out of his depth. He isn’t exactly young either. A serious lack of firepower up front.

Yep. I’m hopeful Clement can put his own stamp on the side in the window to improve this aspect.

Fabio Silva doesn’t seem to have a great scoring record so I’m unsure if he will be the only or main attacking signing.

I’d say Clement has made a really strong start as Rangers manager and he has got a lot out of a squad that is badly unbalanced. Hopefully he can sort that with his own signings.

[bennett]

9 minutes ago, gannonball said:

There has (rightly) been scrutiny of late over Sevco not conceding a penalty in 80 odd games which must be a record in senior football so they were always going to attempt some sort of deflection after the derby if they lost. Moaning about decisions which were ultimately correct though really does the opposite of what they were trying to achieve. 

 

I noticed this narrative starting to appear online last night amongst celtic fans.

 

As was mentioned yesterday, their ability to set the narrative is amazing. 

 

 

[gannonball]

On 29/12/2023 at 18:57, well again said:

Why would Abada want to play in front of the roasters that frequent that den of iniquity.

 

On 29/12/2023 at 22:19, well again said:

And how hard do you expect him to try if he is receiving dogs abuse from 60,000 bigots?

These posts aged well. He rightly got the biggest applause out of everyone announced over the tannoy yesterday. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by gannonball