Reform UK going from strength to strength.

[Wee-Bey]

5 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I don’t think Anderson’s comments about Khan and Islamic extremists were racist at all.  I don’t agree with them, as I think they were factually untrue, but they weren’t racist.  To answer your question, the remarks were neither toxic nor mainstream.

So,  you wouldn't class claiming (insert Jewish politician) is controlled by a shadowy group of Jewish extremists as antisemitism ?

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

27 minutes ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

So,  you wouldn't class claiming (insert Jewish politician) is controlled by a shadowy group of Jewish extremists as antisemitism ?

Sorry, you’ve lost me.

All I referred to was the Islamic extremism thing.

[BFTD]

22 minutes ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

So,  you wouldn't class claiming (insert Jewish politician) is controlled by a shadowy group of Jewish extremists as antisemitism ?

It's very simple; the "centre-right" have established that they're not racist unless recorded lynching (specifically) a black man while explicitly stating that his race is the only reason they're murdering him.

Even then, a wee "I deeply regret my actions during this stressful time, as they could have been misconstrued as uncharacteristically racist" ought to see anyone right.

[Wee-Bey]

5 minutes ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Sorry, you’ve lost me.

All I referred to was the Islamic extremism thing.

If Anderson had made a similar comment about a Jewish mayor of London, would you consider that as antisemitism ?

[Fullerene]

40 minutes ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

If Anderson had made a similar comment about a Jewish mayor of London, would you consider that as antisemitism ?

Never mind that.  I want to know what sinister Hindu organisation has taken control of the UK and why is nobody even talking about it.

[doulikefish]

22 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Never mind that.  I want to know what sinister Hindu organisation has taken control of the UK and why is nobody even talking about it.

With Laser's hopefully 

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

1 hour ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

If Anderson had made a similar comment about a Jewish mayor of London, would you consider that as antisemitism ?

I wouldn’t change my opinion based on the group.

I’ve not mentioned any phobias.

 

[carpetmonster]

4 minutes ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I wouldn’t change my opinion based on the group.

I’ve not mentioned any phobias.

 

Of course it's fucking racist. Anderson described Islamists as Khan's mates. For a quick example, Khan promotes the hell out of, and, as far as I'm aware, marches in the Pride parades every year. Islamists, notoriously aren't too keen on that sort of thing. He certainly doesn't share a cultural outlook with them. About as much as he shares with them is a (perceived) ethnic origin. Ergo, Anderson is racist dogwhistling to the basest form of simpleton. Who's a good boy?

[Wee-Bey]

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I wouldn’t change my opinion based on the group.

These are clearly racist conspiracy theories though.

It's OK to admit they are, no one is going to think you've gone woke.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

2 hours ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

These are clearly racist conspiracy theories though.

It's OK to admit they are, no one is going to think you've gone woke.

It's a poor analogy given that one can be Jewish in terms of both religion and ethnicity.

The same cannot be said for Islam, or more specifically Islamism.  These are not ethnicities.

[AyrAtlanta]

11 hours ago, BFTD said:

Exciting times! It's been fun seeing what parties like UKIP and Alba were willing to pin a rosette on over the years. Labour and the SNP pale by comparison.

I wonder who'll be this election's David Coburn - boasting about being within touching distance of victory, before losing their deposit with Monster Raving Loony levels of support.

Just had a look into the prospective candidate for Kilmarnock and Loudoun and his Facebook page is certainly a sight to behold.

If that’s the standard then I, for one, cannot wait until the election.

[scottsdad]

8 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

It's a poor analogy given that one can be Jewish in terms of both religion and ethnicity.

The same cannot be said for Islam, or more specifically Islamism.  These are not ethnicities.

Every day is a school day here.

Tell us more about how Islamism is/isn't a religion and ethnicity.

[kennie makevin]

3 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Every day is a school day here.

Tell us more about how Islamism is/isn't a religion and ethnicity.

In the same way Christianity is a religion and not an ethnicity parhaps ?

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

45 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Every day is a school day here.

Tell us more about how Islamism is/isn't a religion and ethnicity.

Post of the year so far

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

Every day is a school day here.

Tell us more about how Islamism is/isn't a religion and ethnicity.

These are the kinds of issues that fascinated me. (Sad, or what?)

If a belief system can become an ethnicity, a "race" etc, what about those with a strongly held  "belief" in UFOs as evidence of extra-terrestrial beings, or the Loch Ness Monster or a flat Earth? What race or ethnicity are they?

Some football fans seem to treat support for their club as a matter of more importance to them than many treat a traditional religion.  They gather in the same places as their fellow adherents; many feel uncomfortable in the presence of folk not in their group; they sing songs in praise of their particular version of a deity; they defend their deity against criticism from outside the group and will ostracise critics from within the group.

A belief system is an opinion.  I don't have a religious belief. Am I of a different race or ethnicity from my pal who is religious? If we really get to the stage where there are certain opinions that cannot be discussed, we are in bigger trouble than we think. That way lies blasphemy trials, accusations of witchcraft and other superstitious nonsense.

(Yes, other opinions are available...)

Edited March 14 by Salt n Vinegar
Typo

[Wee Bully]

9 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

It's a poor analogy given that one can be Jewish in terms of both religion and ethnicity.

The same cannot be said for Islam, or more specifically Islamism.  These are not ethnicities.

So, basically you are saying that you are a Bigot rather than a Racist?

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

Every day is a school day here.

Tell us more about how Islamism is/isn't a religion and ethnicity.

You sure you want to ask that question?

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

3 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

So, basically you are saying that you are a Bigot rather than a Racist?

No.

Edited March 14 by CarrbridgeSaintee

[Wee Bully]

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

No.

Wow. Just wow. 

[Freedom Farter]

6 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

These are the kinds of issues that fascinated me. (Sad, or what?)

If a belief system can become an ethnicity, a "race" etc, what about those with a strongly held  "belief" in UFOs as evidence of extra-terrestrial beings, or the Loch Ness Monster or a flat Earth? What race or ethnicity are they?

Some football fans seem to treat support for their club as a matter of more importance to them than many treat a traditional religion.  They gather in the same places as their fellow adherents; many feel uncomfortable in the presence of folk not in their group; they sing songs in praise of their particular version of a deity; they defend their deity against criticism from outside the group and will ostracise critics from within the group.

A belief system is an opinion.  I don't have a religious belief. Am I of a different race or ethnicity from my pal who is religious? If we really get to the stage where there are certain opinions that cannot be discussed, we are in bigger trouble than we think. That way lies blasphemy trials, accusations of witchcraft and other superstitious nonsense.

(Yes, other opinions are available...)

It's about racialization (the term ethnicization is also used):

Quote

the act of giving a racial character to someone or something : the process of categorizing, marginalizing, or regarding according to race

So in your example, flat earthers haven't been racialized.

Unlike European Jews, who were. European Jews became an ethnicity because it was forced onto them. It wasn't their idea, they were just living their lives in accordance with their religious beliefs. However, the European societies they were living in decided that made them an "other" and so treated them as such. When the Holocaust happened, you could be an atheist Jew. You could be a Christian Jew. Yet if the Nazis traced some Jewish heritage in your family line, they still came for you. It was impossible to escape your Jewishness. 

Racialization has happened to some Muslim groups in western Europe. Not every group. Rita Ora, Dua Lipa and folk of Kosovan Muslim heritage get a pass, for example. However, for Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in UK, these pesky former empire folk, that's not the case. To the extent that "Muslim" in a UK context for most folk and certainly for the media is synonymous with a South Asian person. So when it comes to anti-Muslim animus, its not uncommon for eg. Indian Sikhs to be mistakenly victimised. In France, Arabic names on job applications receive fewer call backs, research there has shown. You could be an atheist but that Arabic name would still penalise you. You can't escape your Muslimness.