craigkillie Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Just now, Molotov said: Enjoy. There is a stat in the media that says Hearts have never beaten the opposition at Hampden. I assume by that they mean the new club The Rangers and not the old version that was liquidated. They have never beaten any version of Rangers at Hampden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 3 minutes ago, Molotov said: Enjoy. There is a stat in the media that says Hearts have never beaten the opposition at Hampden. I assume by that they mean the new club The Rangers and not the old version that was liquidated. They beat us 2 - 1 in a Scottish cup final after getting a dodgy penalty, I'm guessing that must've been at Parkhead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 8 minutes ago, Molotov said: Enjoy. There is a stat in the media that says Hearts have never beaten the opposition at Hampden. I assume by that they mean the new club The Rangers and not the old version that was liquidated. No. We've never beaten them at Hampden. We beat them in the Scottish Cup final in 1998, but that was at Parkhead. A very poor record. Got to change sometime. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 8 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Celtic's subs made them much worse, and came at terrible times. The only one that improved them was taking Yang off, and that would have been true even if they hadn't bothered to bring someone on for them. Ultimately at the end, Roos was utterly terrible in the shoot-out and Aberdeen hit several bad penalties, while Celtic, Hart aside, were pretty much spot on with theirs. Other than Forrest coming on and immediately scoring, obviously. I do agree though, seeing McGregor come off was a psychological boost as at 2-1 they were in pretty much full control. Conversely, I’m not totally having that Celtic just chucked it as we took advantage and started doing what we’d been doing in the first half again. The depth on the bench for us was pretty woeful tbh but we managed to remain a threat. Leven made good changes when he could. Sokler and miovski worked well together and hoilett really stepped up. Cant argue on pens, Roos gave us very little chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 18 minutes ago, craigkillie said: I don't see how this weights things towards Celtic here. Because the first thing they check is the foul since he gave it as a free kick, and since it's inconclusive they have to stick with his decision as they can't say he was clearly wrong, so everything that happened after is void. If he blows for the penalty, or even just a stoppage in play after the foul for a potential penalty, then he can review the whole play again on screen as the VAR wouldn't be able to tell him if it should be a free kick to Celtic or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: This is my last post on this because it's clear you're just refusing to see the point. 43 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: And since it's unclear and subjective, they can't overturn his decision so the check ends there and the penalty is off the table. 35 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: And yet again, I ask for an example of them doing this in the past. I've never once seen a VAR review for an aerial challenge, given as a foul, overturned, either in St Johnstone games or in the few Sportscenes I watch. In any game not involving Celtic (or Rangers), the referee either blows for a foul straight away, or blows for the penalty and pulls it back for the foul after reviewing the play. To me it's just another example of how things are refereed differently when those two are involved with things weighted towards them in the decision making. 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Because the first thing they check is the foul since he gave it as a free kick, and since it's inconclusive they have to stick with his decision as they can't say he was clearly wrong, so everything that happened after is void. If he blows for the penalty, or even just a stoppage in play after the foul for a potential penalty, then he can review the whole play again on screen as the VAR wouldn't be able to tell him if it should be a free kick to Celtic or not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Just seen highlights. Can't believe Dons didn't get a penalty for C-V taking out two of their players. SFA obviously hoping for an Ugly Sister final. Sevco to get a pen today and a red for Shankland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 The performance from @RandomGuy.on here is akin to our defence yesterday. Very busy and getting stuck in but ultimately don't have a clue to what they are doing. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiosSamaras Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) First penalty shootout I've been to in years. Horrible and just glad to get through it, no idea where those penalties have been all season as we miss as many we score normally. If we'd failed it would have been a huge blow and given our rivals more reason to hope that we have a late collapse in us these last 5 league games. Don't think anyone in particular shined for us. Kuhn is our most dangerous winger by miles but we'd be lucky to get a decent 90 minutes out the rest. Yang needs a break and a loan move. Palma scunners me. Midfields our strongest area but McGregor's not fit, Reo was hot and cold and O'Riley poor bar his goal. Strikers didn't shine. We should have killed the game off at 2-1 and then at 3-2, we were in control but just didn't force the issue. Still, that we need to score 4 goals to win a game is a joke. Scales is brutal and the number of games we've failed to see out this season is not good enough. Thought Aberdeen played well to be fair. Miovski is someone I'd like us to look at in the summer. Surprised based on yesterday that they aren't top six. Edited April 21 by GeorgiosSamaras 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 19 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: Can't think of anyone winning a cup beating them both at Hampden. Somebody on here will know if it's happened. There have only been 7 occasions of a club beating one in the semi and the other in the final, and only 4 of them came with both games at Hampden. Hibs in the 1901/02 Scottish Cup beat Rangers in the semi and Celtic in the final. The games were at Ibrox and Celtic Park though - semis weren't at neutral venues in those days, and the final was supposed to be at Ibrox but had to be moved because of the first Ibrox disaster. St Mirren in the 1925/26 Scottish Cup beat Rangers in the semi and Celtic in the final. The semi was at Celtic Park and the final was at Hampden. Killie in the 1928/29 Scottish Cup beat Celtic in the semi and Rangers in the final. The semi was at Ibrox and the final was at Hampden. Hibs in the 1972/73 League Cup beat Rangers in the semi and Celtic in the final. Both were played at Hampden. Aberdeen in the 1976/77 League Cup beat Rangers in the semi and Celtic in the final. Both were played at Hampden. Aberdeen in the 1982/83 Scottish Cup beat Celtic in the semi and Rangers in the final. Both were played at Hampden. Aberdeen in the 1989/90 League Cup beat Celtic in the semi and Rangers in the final. Both were played in Hampden. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 9 minutes ago, gannonball said: The performance from @RandomGuy.on here is akin to our defence yesterday. Very busy and getting stuck in but ultimately don't have a clue to what they are doing. Everyone seems to simultaneously agree that the foul for the free kick was in no way certain or that the ref knew it was a foul, while disagreeing with me that he shouldve allowed the whole play to be reviewed rather than making it a "free kick or not a free kick" decision. The moment he gave a free kick for a foul he knew was inconclusive, he made sure there was no chance of a penalty as he knew VAR couldn't overturn his initial decision. Yet to hear why he made the right choice beyond "RuLeZ r rULz" as a blind defence ignoring what actually happened. Edited April 21 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 14 minutes ago, Crùbag said: Sevco to get a pen today and a red for Shankland. Certainly what most neutrals I have spoken to are hoping for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 21 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Because the first thing they check is the foul since he gave it as a free kick, and since it's inconclusive they have to stick with his decision as they can't say he was clearly wrong, so everything that happened after is void. If he blows for the penalty, or even just a stoppage in play after the foul for a potential penalty, then he can review the whole play again on screen as the VAR wouldn't be able to tell him if it should be a free kick to Celtic or not. You aren't making any sense here I'm afraid. The referee gives what he thinks is the right decision on the pitch, he can't make what he thinks is a wrong decision just so that he can go back and check his other decision on the screen. All over pretty much every single other thread about VAR you've got people (wrongly) rattling on about how referees have abdicated responsibility making decisions and are happy to just let VAR do it for them, yet you seem to be arguing here that this is exactly what he should have done. Edited April 21 by craigkillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Just now, craigkillie said: You aren't making any sense here I'm afraid. The referee gives what he thinks is the right decision on the pitch, he can't make what he thinks is a wrong decision just so that he can go back and check his other decision on the screen. He can make no decision, stop play as it's come to a natural stop anyway with players appealing/there's a player injured in the box, and review the entire thing thanks to VAR. He made the decision to make sure the review process stopped at the earliest point possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Everyone seems to simultaneously agree that the foul for the free kick was in no way certain or that the ref knew it was a foul, while disagreeing with me that he shouldve allowed the whole play to be reviewed rather than making it a "free kick or not a free kick" decision. The moment he gave a free kick for a foul he knew was inconclusive, he made sure there was no chance of a penalty as he knew VAR couldn't overturn his initial decision. I'm sorry but the foul is quite conclusive for me he barges in to the back of him and gets nowhere the ball and stops Johnston from making contact with the ball. I'm not sure it can be anything other than a free kick really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: He can make no decision He can’t. Quote 2. The referee must always make a decision, i.e. the referee is not permitted to give ‘no decision’ and then use the VAR to make the decision; a decision to allow play to continue after an alleged offence can be reviewed. https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#principles 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: He can make no decision, stop play as it's come to a natural stop anyway with players appealing/there's a player injured in the box, and review the entire thing thanks to VAR. He made the decision to make sure the review process stopped at the earliest point possible. Refs do have latitude to allow play to move on a bit (we see plenty times where play is brought back for a foul that ultimately didnt result in any sensible advantage). But surely you are not advocating that when he has seen an incident, the ref should just keep waiting until there is some "natural stop", NOT make a decision and just throw everything to the VAR box? Matches would be about 120 minutes long without added time ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Not getting dragged into ref chat, and I'm just going out. But, even in games with no VAR, it's not unusual to see a ref let a foul go to see how play develops then stop the game when it becomes obvious the fouled-against team are at a disadvantage. Anyone who watches football has seen this. Anyway. f**k the ****, I'm off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 To beat Celtic we have to be absolutely on it throughout. We weren't. First two goals should have been preventable then we spent half an hour of the second half being unable to put passes together. A good Celtic team would have cruised that. Great fighting spirit from the Dons though and some really good bits of attacking play. Hopefully they can turn that on another five times and stop the season being a total disaster. Not having a go at wee Shayden but when Miokvski went off to be replaced by him the writing was on the wall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: And yet again, I ask for an example of them doing this in the past. I've never once seen a VAR review for an aerial challenge, given as a foul, overturned, either in St Johnstone games or in the few Sportscenes I watch. In any game not involving Celtic (or Rangers), the referee either blows for a foul straight away, or blows for the penalty and pulls it back for the foul after reviewing the play. To me it's just another example of how things are refereed differently when those two are involved with things weighted towards them in the decision making. Thats what I was trying to say last night, The foul on johnston is debatable, but Robertson clearly didn't think so hence the immediate award of the free kick when hoilett went down, He chose not to blow straight away but instead give the free kick when aberdeen wanted the penalty, and that sequence of events just makes it look way worse If Robertson had any doubts in his mind about the foul, he rightly plays on but surely he awards the penalty and not the free kick and then asks VAR to check the potential free kick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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