RandomGuy. Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 12 minutes ago, gannonball said: I'm sorry but the foul is quite conclusive for me he barges in to the back of him and gets nowhere the ball and stops Johnston from making contact with the ball. I'm not sure it can be anything other than a free kick really. I've been told repeatedly in this thread that the referee would be blow straight away if he thought it was a clear foul. If he didn't he thought it was inconclusive. If he thought it was inconclusive why did he make that the stopping point for the VAR review and not allow the whole thing to be reviewed? Him awarding the free kick on the pitch, for something he thought was inconclusive, made it the end point for any review. 10 minutes ago, Leith Green said: But surely you are not advocating that when he has seen an incident, the ref should just keep waiting until there is some "natural stop", NOT make a decision and just throw everything to the VAR box? They do this all the time and it happened earlier in the exact same game. Edited April 21 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 14 minutes ago, The Master said: He can’t. https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#principles Again, they do this all the time and you, again, have repeatedly explained to me that they let play go on at offside situations without making any decision, knowing a review will take play once play stops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 3 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said: Thats what I was trying to say last night, The foul on johnston is debatable, but Robertson clearly didn't think so hence the immediate award of the free kick when hoilett went down, He chose not to blow straight away but instead give the free kick when aberdeen wanted the penalty, and that sequence of events just makes it look way worse If Robertson had any doubts in his mind about the foul, he rightly plays on but surely he awards the penalty and not the free kick and then asks VAR to check the potential free kick No, because his on-field determination was that there was a foul on the defender. He let the play run not because of a lack of certainty, but because that’s what is now supposed to happen under the VAR protocol. Once a potential game-changing event happened, he stopped the play and awarded the free kick that, without VAR, he would have awarded straight away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Just now, RandomGuy. said: I've been told repeatedly in this thread that the referee would be blow straight away if he thought it was a clear foul. If he didn't he thought it was inconclusive. If he thought it was inconclusive why did he make that the stopping point for the VAR review and not allow the whole thing to be reviewed? Him awarded the free kick on the pitch, for something he thought was inconclusive, made it the end point for any review. Just because you've been told something in the thread doesn't make it true. It is not the referee's job to "create end points for VAR reviews", it is his job to make the decision he thinks is correct. The only reason the foul is the stopping point for the VAR review is because it was plausibly a foul. If he had given that decision and it actually turned out that there was no contact between the players or that Hoilett had just brushed against him, then VAR would have been able to review the penalty. The only alternative here, and what would have happened pre-VAR, was that Robertson would give the foul straight away and Aberdeen wouldn't have had the chance to give a foul. You keep claiming that Robertson could simply have made no decision and waited for the ball to go out, but there is no such thing as making no decision. If he had not awarded the free-kick, then his decision would have been that there wasn't a foul. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: Again, they do this all the time and you, again, have repeatedly explained to me that they let play go on at offside situations without making any decision, knowing a review will take play once play stops. They do make a decision in these offside situations, the flag either goes up or doesn't at the end of the play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 29 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: I've been told repeatedly in this thread that the referee would be blow straight away if he thought it was a clear foul. If he didn't he thought it was inconclusive. If he thought it was inconclusive why did he make that the stopping point for the VAR review and not allow the whole thing to be reviewed? Him awarded the free kick on the pitch, for something he thought was inconclusive, made it the end point for any review. They do this all the time and it happened earlier in the exact same game. Ultimately the right outcome has been achieved here yes? This is a very strange hill for you to die on. You have done this before on Celtic match threads and seem determined to find an injustice that often just aren't there. It's tedious AF. Edited April 21 by gannonball 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: Again, they do this all the time When? 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: and you, again, have repeatedly explained to me that they let play go on at offside situations without making any decision, knowing a review will take play once play stops. I never said that. I’ve been citing late flags as being fundamentally no different to what happened yesterday. You also seem to misunderstand what it means for a referee to make a decision. Those occasions where you see play stopped or a restart delayed for a VAR review aren’t a case of the referee not making a decision. In those cases, the decision was “no penalty” (or “no red card”, or whatever the incident is). Similarly, if an assistant doesn’t flag, that’s not them making no decision. Their decision is “not offside”. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 What @RandomGuy.Is saying i think is that Robertson should have awarded the penalty but asked for a check on the free kick at the same time (would have happened anyway) By awarding the free kick, there was absolutely no chance it was being overturned as it wouldnt come close to a clear and obvious error so VAR would just go with refs initial decision 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Just now, 54_and_counting said: What @RandomGuy.Is saying i think is that Robertson should have awarded the penalty but asked for a check on the free kick at the same time (would have happened anyway) This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how VAR works. Referees are not allowed to do this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 The ref has done the correct thing here. I remember a cup tie earlier in the season we had against Morton. I think Dessers tackled a defender to win the ball then proceeded to round the keeper and score, however the ref had already blown his whistle before he put it in. Given that the foul seemed soft I was pretty annoyed he never let it run for a few seconds, as he should have, to at least allow the option of the foul to be reviewed. In this instance, the ref has done just that. The debate as to whether it was a foul on Johnston can be had, but it was simply good refereeing in my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Just now, 54_and_counting said: What @RandomGuy.Is saying i think is that Robertson should have awarded the penalty but asked for a check on the free kick at the same time (would have happened anyway) He believed it was a free kick, so that’s what he should award. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 1 minute ago, 54_and_counting said: What @RandomGuy.Is saying i think is that Robertson should have awarded the penalty but asked for a check on the free kick at the same time (would have happened anyway) By awarding the free kick, there was absolutely no chance it was being overturned as it wouldnt come close to a clear and obvious error so VAR would just go with refs initial decision If he believes it was a foul on Johnston he was 100% correct to award that foul rather than award the penalty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 There’s a strong argument for creating a thread dedicated to these types of decisions and protocols. This isn’t even Aberdeen and Celtic fans debating it. In the pantheon of VAR nonsense this season, this decision is pretty low on the Richter scale. It’s so fucking boring. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 11 minutes ago, AJF said: If he believes it was a foul on Johnston he was 100% correct to award that foul rather than award the penalty. So why not just blow right away, its certainly not going to come under the clear and obvious error category Imo it just makes the system look worse than it is, the only time the play should continue like that did is if the ref isnt sure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 5 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said: So why not just blow right away, its certainly not going to come under the clear and obvious error category Because in the moment, the referee doesn’t know that. They can be confident that it’s a free kick. So confident that they subsequently give it. But allowing play to continue affords the opportunity to make sure, should a potentially game-changing incident unfold. Edited April 21 by The Master 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said: Celtic: The USSR of football. Can't think of anyone winning a cup beating them both at Hampden. Somebody on here will know if it's happened. St. Mirren went close in 1926, beating Rangers (1872) in the semi at Celtic Park and Celtic in the final at Hampden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 5 minutes ago, The Master said: Because in the moment, the referee doesn’t know that. They can be confident that it’s a free kick. So confident that they subsequently give it. But allowing play to continue affords the opportunity to make sure, should a potentially game-changing incident unfold. So he wasn't certain it was a foul, being "confident" isn't the same as certain And again, by awarding the free kick before the penalty pretty much ruled out any chance of the penalty being awarded because VAR would never see his free kick award as a clear and obvious error 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Setting the referee aside. Aberdeen played well, I only tuned in at 75min and the commentators were giving it no way back now from then on and again when Celtic went in front again. The play preceding the Aberdeen second was excellent. Roos didn't look comfortable at all at pens. Joe Hart is an arrogant f**k and hugely dislikeable, but he did look more confident. Aberdeen heads didn't drop when they went behind. The BBC coms were awful. Leeane Critchon offers no insight. Surely our national broadcaster can find better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 11 hours ago, kingjoey said: First of all, the main thing today from a football point of view was that it was a fabulous match. I've no idea who the VAR was today and couldn't care less, but whoever it was was operating on weird sense of consistency. Kyogo wins the ball for Celtic's first goal by pushing into the back of Macdonald. The VAR has looked at that and decided "not a foul". Fair enough. Same person then looks at the same kind of push, virtually identical, by Hoilett in the box and decided "that's a foul". What chance have you got. I don't care that we did score about 6 minutes later. If we had rightly been given the penalty and scored it, we'd have had six more minutes to try to score a winner, rather than still trying to find an equaliser. I thought that at the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Just now, Jacksgranda said: I thought that at the time. I never thought that tbh. He just fucked it. Macdonald did a redtv interview after and he’s just held his hands up to the mistake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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