Chasing VAR out of Scotland

[Kyle Reese]

49 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

How many penalties have Sevco had this season?

No idea. All I know is that the number of utterly farcical decisions against HMFC has reduced through its use. Last season we got two penalties at Parkhead and both were only given after VAR intervention. I was closer to giving up on the whole corrupt shooting match due to the corruption in officiating PRE-VAR!

[Kyle Reese]

9 hours ago, Kyle Reese said:

I do not want to get rid of VAR. I would rather not go back to our fate being decided by cowardly officials giving incorrect decisions against us with impunity. The mere fact that Celtic and Rangers would love to bin it should tell you everything you need to know. Keep it but make it better and improve the standard of our shite officials.

Fair few red dots on this post of mine. Can the folk who did so actually explain what it is about the content of the post that prompted it? If it is just purely disagreement, then quote it and say why.

[DA Baracus]

6 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

Fair few red dots on this post of mine. Can the folk who did so actually explain what it is about the content of the post that prompted it? If it is just purely disagreement, then quote it and say why.

VAR is abysmal and needs to f**k right off.

That's why.

[Kyle Reese]

The biggest two arguments against VAR appear to be:

1) Referees and other officials have been exposed as either completely incompetent or corrupt.

2) It spoils the flow of the game.

The first one is a ludicrous reason to get rid of it. It should be a reason to revamp and totally revolutionise the standard of officiating.

The second one is no different to a goal being called back for a referees decision in the run up. 

VAR is not the problem. The problem is the sub-standard cowards running the show.

[Kyle Reese]

Just now, DA Baracus said:

VAR is abysmal and needs to f**k right off.

That's why.

Oh right. Great reply mate. Impressive stuff.

[kingjoey]

24 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

Yep. My first ever season. It was incredible. Loved it. 

I did particularly enjoy our Scottish Cup run and final that year.

[KingswellsRed]

6 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

The biggest two arguments against VAR appear to be:

1) Referees and other officials have been exposed as either completely incompetent or corrupt.

2) It spoils the flow of the game.

The first one is a ludicrous reason to get rid of it. It should be a reason to revamp and totally revolutionise the standard of officiating.

The second one is no different to a goal being called back for a referees decision in the run up. 

VAR is not the problem. The problem is the sub-standard cowards running the show.

Many of us attend the football for the moments you remember and talk about for years to come. Celebrating a last minute winner for example. So for us VAR very much is the problem as there is now always that doubt about whether the goal will stand.

Edited May 3 by KingswellsRed

[Kyle Reese]

3 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

I did particularly enjoy our Scottish Cup run and final that year.

I am sure you did. Being seven, I enjoyed the whole season, but felt a little bit down in the final league game and the cup final, but at that age and in your first season? It did not ruin the memories and emotions I had felt along the way.

[Kyle Reese]

4 minutes ago, KingswellsRed said:

Many of us attend the football for the moments you remember and talk about for years to come. Celebrating a last minute winner for example. So for us VAR very much is the problem as there is now always that doubt about whether the goal will stand.

I celebrate every goal and feel the angst after every look at those decisions afterwards. I much prefer actually getting cheated so often, to the risk of a goal I celebrated being chalked off.

[Bobby_F]

14 minutes ago, KingswellsRed said:

Many of us attend the football for the moments you remember and talk about for years to come. Celebrating a last minute winner for example. So for us VAR very much is the problem as there is now always that doubt about whether the goal will stand.

VAR gave Aberdeen a 97th minute equaliser against St Mirren earlier in the season after correctly awarding Aberdeen a penalty.

And it gave Aberdeen what I'm sure felt like a last minute winner.

Sadly VAR then failed to see that the 'goal' should have been ruled out - which would have given Saints fans a moment to talk about for years to come.

Needed to wait till the next home game against Aberdeen for last minute, talk about for years, drama.

[KingswellsRed]

6 minutes ago, Bobby_F said:

VAR gave Aberdeen a 97th minute equaliser against St Mirren earlier in the season after correctly awarding Aberdeen a penalty.

And it gave Aberdeen what I'm sure felt like a last minute winner.

Sadly VAR then failed to see that the 'goal' should have been ruled out - which would have given Saints fans a moment to talk about for years to come.

Needed to wait till the next home game against Aberdeen for last minute, talk about for years, drama.

Indeed. But how would you have felt if a few minutes later the ref had his hand in the air signalling the goal was offside?

[Dons_1988]

47 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

Fair few red dots on this post of mine. Can the folk who did so actually explain what it is about the content of the post that prompted it? If it is just purely disagreement, then quote it and say why.

It’s quite difficult to debate what you’ve said when your opinion on VAR seems based on the premise that referees in this country are a corrupt bunch needing technology to hold them to account. 

Theres a vast number of reasons why VAR is objectively bad for the sport and why it fundamentally doesn’t work, but if you believe that refs go into games trying to cheat you then I doubt any of that is going to cut through. 

The fact you think people want rid of VAR because it exposes corruption is a bit of a red flag not to engage tbh. 

[FK1Bairn]

57 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

Fair few red dots on this post of mine. Can the folk who did so actually explain what it is about the content of the post that prompted it? If it is just purely disagreement, then quote it and say why.

I imagine the red dots are because your original post comes across as very 'Old Firmy' and looking for a conspiracy that quite simply isn't there

[Kyle Reese]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

It’s quite difficult to debate what you’ve said when your opinion on VAR seems based on the premise that referees in this country are a corrupt bunch needing technology to hold them to account. 

Theres a vast number of reasons why VAR is objectively bad for the sport and why it fundamentally doesn’t work, but if you believe that refs go into games trying to cheat you then I doubt any of that is going to cut through. 

The fact you think people want rid of VAR because it exposes corruption is a bit of a red flag not to engage tbh. 

Well there you have it. I have laid out my reasons and backed them up with recorded incidents. I have stated reasons why I hold the position I do. 

I take it from the post that I am replying to, that you did not get cheated as often as my team pre-VAR? That in itself just strengthens my resolve tbh.

My position is that I would like to see the technology properly implemented to ensure more correct decisions than what we had to endure before its introduction. Also, pertinently, I want to see referees chosen on merit, and not because they scuttled through Strathclyde associations. 

My club has not been cheated as much (we have still been cheated) as before VAR was introduced. For that reason I want to see it improved. It is human error that is causing the issues, not the technology. Let’s see us sort out the real problem.

[Kyle Reese]

Just now, FK1Bairn said:

I imagine the red dots are because your original post comes across as very 'Old Firmy' and looking for a conspiracy that quite simply isn't there

Oh right. So the examples that I gave then? You know, the ones that were predominantly in favour of the old firm? They make my point “old firmy”?

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, Kyle Reese said:

Well there you have it. I have laid out my reasons and backed them up with recorded incidents. I have stated reasons why I hold the position I do. 

I take it from the post that I am replying to, that you did not get cheated as often as my team pre-VAR? That in itself just strengthens my resolve tbh.

My position is that I would like to see the technology properly implemented to ensure more correct decisions than what we had to endure before its introduction. Also, pertinently, I want to see referees chosen on merit, and not because they scuttled through Strathclyde associations. 

My club has not been cheated as much (we have still been cheated) as before VAR was introduced. For that reason I want to see it improved. It is human error that is causing the issues, not the technology. Let’s see us sort out the real problem.

Yeah, like I said. I’m sitting this one out. 

[Kyle Reese]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yeah, like I said. I’m sitting this one out. 

Sit it out then, instead of being obtuse and churlish and trying to build strawman arguments that are not relevant nor necessary, when my posts are perfectly concise and plain in their meaning.

 

 

Edited May 3 by Kyle Reese

[VincentGuerin]

5 hours ago, Kyle Reese said:

They have had incidents overturned or turned in the other teams favour due to VAR that they would never have normally suffered. They hate it because it stops them getting as many things in their favour. Brendan Rodgers in particular hates that his team do not get as many favours as they used to. I much prefer what happens now compared to: 

Four players sent off at Ibrox mostly for f**k all

Andy Webster told he must have elbowed himself in the eye, not John Hartson

Dougie MacDonald sending off Webster and McCann at Rugby Park and Hartley in the 2006 cup final

Andy Davis awarding Kyriakos a penalty for diving

Barry Ferguson playing basketball

Ian Brines sending off Fyssas for a dive by Maloney in a New Year’s Day game vs Celtic

Allan McGregor kung-fu kicking Callum Elliot in the stomach

Kenny Miller effectively ending Kevin McHattie’s career at a decent level with a knee high challenge at the touchline

No thanks, I prefer when incompetence and bias are exposed and the officials made to look incompetent for their cowardice.

I particularly enjoyed the nationwide ridicule when Dermot Gallagher reviewed the incident where the Motherwell player kicked Boyce in the chest and he booked him for diving. The two studio guests and him on SKY pissing themselves laughing at the referee. The more exposure these p***ks get the better

 

 

Every team has decisions go their way and go against them. We also won a Scottish Cup final against Rangers with two, ahem, marginal penalty decisions. You've got to see the bigger picture.

The general point is that it makes the game too picky, and this is where it differs from your example of a goal being disallowed in another post. In non-VAR games a goal will be disallowed if a referee spots something. If he's seen it, it's likely worth seeing. If nobody has seen it, then VAR interventions in the game are against the spirit of the sport and ruin the emotion and experience in the ground. Football's laws aren't a science. They're, to a large degree, subjective. VAR doesn't work.

I've mentioned it before, but everyone I go to games with agreed that our penalty in the routine trouncing of Hibs at Tynecastle last season was the least satisfying derby goal we've scored. An absolutely fucking shite experience. Fair play to you if you like that, but I honestly can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people I know who share your view.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

Sit it out then, instead of being obtuse and churlish and trying to build strawman arguments that are not relevant nor necessary, when my posts are perfectly considered and plain.

You asked why you got red dots and not responses. You didn’t like the answer. Not really my problem. 

[Kyle Reese]

8 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Every team has decisions go their way and go against them. We also won a Scottish Cup final against Rangers with two, ahem, marginal penalty decisions. You've got to see the bigger picture.

The general point is that it makes the game too picky, and this is where it differs from your example of a goal being disallowed in another post. In non-VAR games a goal will be disallowed if a referee spots something. If he's seen it, it's likely worth seeing. If nobody has seen it, then VAR interventions in the game are against the spirit of the sport and ruin the emotion and experience in the ground. Football's laws aren't a science. They're, to a large degree, subjective. VAR doesn't work.

I've mentioned it before, but everyone I go to games with agreed that our penalty in the routine trouncing of Hibs at Tynecastle last season was the least satisfying derby goal we've scored. An absolutely fucking shite experience. Fair play to you if you like that, but I honestly can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people I know who share your view.

It’s cool mate. Basically it comes down to me comparing pre and post VAR incidents, and me weighing it up on how I feel it affects my enjoyment of football.

On the one hand I have to consider the breaks in the game and the fact I could celebrate and have the reason to celebrate overturned.

On the other hand I look at how decisions like Andy Davis,  Brines and McDonald are less common or likely.

I am pretty definitive in my decision.  
 

 

Edited May 3 by Kyle Reese