Scotland Vs Northern Ireland

[VictorOnopko]

1 hour ago, KirkieRR said:

What makes you think that?

Optimism, and a few other reasons:

• We have a mostly excellent core squad of Premiership-level players and despite the scoreline we played really well for 60-70 minutes against the Dutch just days ago - we were confident and assured (until the subs f*cked it and we collapsed; we'll learn from that). There are always key moments and had Shankland's chance gone in we probably wouldn't be wringing our hands this morning.
• Most of our core players have finals experience now, unlike last time.
• We're always shite in friendlies, have been for years and years and for some reason we chose to play this one against a team who would be very well organised, defensive, and hard tackling and who won with a flukey deflected goal after a defensive gaffe. Heads went down when we lost 3-0 to Southern ireland in a friendly a while back but we've done OK since then, except the dire run of friendly losses.  No idea why we agreed to play France away and fielded our reserves for example. 
• The Euros group we have is not all that scary and if we can get a point from the opener then we have two chances to win and qualify. Scotland are much of a muchness with Hungary and the Swiss and if we have our first choice team available (and it doesn't include Patterson or Dykes as starters) then I fancy us to beat one of them.
• We haven't gone from world beaters against Spain a year ago to a hopeless basket case with no chance at the Euros as quiet a lot of folk are claiming.  We have to trust the players and manager to show up when the time comes. Everything else is just noise.

[Jaggy McJagface]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yip, totally agree with this.

It's a year since we beat Spain and there's a good argument that we've been in decline ever  since.  That win in Oslo was tremendously exciting, but it wasn't deserved; it was absolutely freaky.  It was the decisive match in qualifying, and we made heavy weather of it from then on, even before this run of friendlies.

The rogerings from England and France weren't pretty, but at least mealy mouthed excuses were available.  We've run out of even them now though.

We were excellent and highly unlucky against Spain away.

In the last two games of qualifying and the run of friendlies we have seemed to lack a real competitive edge/desire, as these games have all been approached differently due to a lack of jeopardy. I think this might be working against us as the momentum and positivity around our chances in Germany seems to have completely stalled.

 

Undortunately it means we’re going into June not having had a “proper” competitive match since Spain in September, which is a bit ironic considering the amount of chatter I’ve seen about us catching Germany cold going into the opening game.

[Mr Heliums]

The odd choice of friendly bugs me. What were we ever going to learn from this game? Post-match, Clarke said we hadn't played against a team like NI for a while, and we were unlikely to play against a similar team in the Euros. I'd have loved the interviewer to ask the obvious follow-up: so what was the point of playing them? 

[TheScarf]

I was saying to my mate last night it seemed the players were definitely playing within themselves. The tempo was slow, the movement was non existent. I think certain players were thinking about the club season run in. Which you can kind of let go. 

If we play North Ireland in a competitive game there's only one winner. 

[Elgin Macca]

8 hour round trip, 4 hours sleep before work.....

 

Hello Scotland, old friend. Its been a while......

[kennie makevin]

10 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

Even if we weren'ton this bad run, expecting to get out of the group we are in is a big ask. We,are the weakest in the group.

On the basis of the last few performances we are the weakest in the tournament, by a distance.

[Jaggy McJagface]

8 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

The odd choice of friendly bugs me. What were we ever going to learn from this game? Post-match, Clarke said we hadn't played against a team like NI for a while, and we were unlikely to play against a similar team in the Euros. I'd have loved the interviewer to ask the obvious follow-up: so what was the point of playing them? 

I think it’s likely there was almost nobody else available and not already scheduled in for a game around these dates. I’m sure most of us thought it would be a routine win to build the confidence anyway.

[Paranoid]

As regards the boos...Steve should lay off the vodka. I'll get my coat.

 

[rainbowrising]

Possibly picked the wrong "friendly". 

Rather than a reasonably open game with the chance to try a few players we faced really nippy stuff that was getting to players.  NI played like it was the sudden death Wales/Poland match. 

Can't get away from the obvious weaknesses in the squad depth. They have always been there really. The defeat, as far as a friendly, was irrelevant but adds more to the sense of losing momentum. 

[VictorOnopko]

2 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

On the basis of the last few performances we are the weakest in the tournament, by a distance.

OK mate.  Never mind that we finished 9 points ahead of Georgia in our group, and were unlucky not to take something from Spain away having outclassed them at home.  We've had a few shit friendlies so we must be terrible now and by far the weakest team at the finals!

[nate]

19 hours ago, MarkoRaj said:

Feel like it all comes together in this game and we put 3 or 4 by them

You got any fixed odds tips for the weekend?

[BB_Bino]

By the time I got home last night, I couldn't really be bothered posting, I jut felt so flat and let down. For as much as calm heads are required, alarm bells should also be ringing, as has been said by others in this thread, since Oslo, we seem like we are taking backwards steps.

Our big players didn't show on the night, I've read a lot about who got pass marks, I think those that did were simply ok but in general everyone was way below the standard that they have set. We're looking at players like McGinn, McTominy, Christie and Gilmour to get on the ball and drag the game by the scruff of the neck and none of them did. 

For me, last night offered more questions than answers. Although I've praised him on a number of occasions, Dykes was well off it and looks a shadow of the player we were desperate to come play for us. Has he peaked?? He's become a bit part player at the lower end of the English Championship and has become less effective for Scotland. Jason Brown had this level of performance for us and was written off as a jobber by many supporters, I can't help but think Dykes is really no better on current form. 

In over 30 years of going to Hampden, I've seen some woeful individual performances by players, however, if the player started then the Manager would put them out of their misery and take them off. Patterson's performance last night must go down as the worst 90 minute performance I have seen from a player in all that time. Why Clarke kept him on is beyond me. He's not the first and won't be the last player to make an error and be punished for it, I can forgive that, but his whole game was just error after error after error. The argument of some on our bus was that Ralston was no better, and if you move Tierney over there like Strachan did, then Taylor is no better than Ralston, well I'm sorry, I don't buy that. Clarke calls up a squad of players that he feels he can use in every circumstance....well last night was one of those circumstances and the squad available should have coped with it.

I know we have had great success with a back 3, although not a huge fan myself, I can see why Clarke sees it as our best opinion and you can't argue with him, however when Robertson went off, it was good to see that he wasn't too stubborn to change the shape. The problem with changing the shape is, we didn't really have the pace out wide to cause the N.Irish problems. Clarke mentioned in his interview that seeing us in another shape was one of the positives he would take from the game, but we were extremely 1 paced all night and the ball was continually killed by the more advanced players with the slow tempi build ups. I don't know who is available to fill that void, your Facebook warriors will scream "Gauld" or "Fraser", I don't know if that's the answer but the lack of pace in the final third worries me. Armstrong come on and had a bit of luck getting past his man, but again, against higher ranked opposition, I don't think he would have been "as effective".

So where do we go from here?? Well there were positives, I thought Ferguson come on and did well and brought himself more under consideration, although not really tested by the strike force, Cooper looked good at the back, Shankland looked lively and at least got into positions to have a chance and I thought Tierney did what he does when he was moved out wide, although very often didn't have the options needed when he ventured over the half way line.

It's no time to push the panic button. Our bigger players will have better games, but the concern going into the next group of friendlies is that we still don't have a settled back 3, we still don't know who our main Striker is....and if Hickey and Robertson don't make it then we don't have suitable replacements if we want to continue in the same set up that got us there.  Clarke shouldn't rip up what he has built so far, and has given us our pride back, but I am starting to question if this is a bridge too far for certain members of the squad.

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

36 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

It is a bit worrying. What development did we get from that game?

We didn’t find a way to break down a fairly poor team.

We picked players who aren’t getting a regular game for their clubs and/or who are out of form and we found out that isn’t a great idea.

We found out our defence still isn’t great, our forwards aren’t doing the business and we rely heavily on our star turns in midfield.

If it was me in charge at the SFA, I’d get the Think Tank warmed up because it won’t be long until things are falling to bits again and everyone is wailing and gnashing their teeth at the state of the game in Scotland.

There’ll be calls for more Scottish boys to get a regular game in the Scottish Premiership, more foreign coaches from successful footballing countries, more indoor pitches. While the fans sit and fester in the rain.

The circle of life for Scottish Football. Glorious.

This.  Anyone paying close attention in recent years will recognise that in a few instances the results have been better than the performances, but as usual the media and a sizeable section of the support live purely for the moment.

This obviously isn't a good moment, and to those who airily dismiss the last few games on the basis that 'we don't do friendlies' then historically we don't do Finals very well either.

Last night again served to highlight that when we can't get our best team on the pitch then we can struggle badly.  This will not be a revelation to Stevie Clarke, but I would respectfully suggest that he questions his faith in certain players.

[2426255]

29 minutes ago, Matty-RCFC said:

Especially when nothing was really experimented with. I understand maintaining the “club spirit”, if you want to call it that, but calling up 26 players and only using 18 is just strange to me. 

The players who didn't get game time from the 26 were 3 of the goalkeepers, Greg Taylor and the 2 injured boys (McKenna, Hanley). Everyone else got a chance. What's strange about that?

[Dons_1988]

Just now, O'Kelly Isley III said:

This.  Anyone paying close attention in recent years will recognise that in a few instances the results have been better than the performances, but as usual the media and a sizeable section of the support live purely for the moment.

This obviously isn't a good moment, and to those who airily dismiss the last few games on the basis that 'we don't do friendlies' then historically we don't do Finals very well either.

Last night again served to highlight that when we can't get our best team on the pitch then we can struggle badly.  This will not be a revelation to Stevie Clarke, but I would respectfully suggest that he questions his faith in certain players.

Seeing as ‘we don’t do friendlies’ is basically an exact quote from me, I’d be suggesting replacing ‘airily dismiss’ with putting in perspective. I’m not suggesting everything will be fine in Germany, because they may not be. But that is as true today as it was 6-12 months ago. 

What I basically said was that there’s no need to lose the rag over things we already knew about this squad, of which we learned nothing new last night. 
 

[kennie makevin]

10 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

 

I think we'll do well this summer and I'm not panicking like a lot of folk on here are. We qualified in style and need things to click again at the right time. My point is, we're at the finals. We waited 20 years to qualify for anything and Clarke has got us to two Euros in a row. If we get out of the group that'll make this the best Scotland team ever, and I still think we can do it. Not a loser or defeatist attitude, quite the opposite. 

Indeed...insanely optimistic, cheerfully deluded, and if you think that wriggling out of the group (which we won't do anyway) would make this Scotland team better than the 1928 Wembley Wizards or the 67 or 77 Scotland teams then that's an opinion alright..

[Matty-RCFC]

10 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

The players who didn't get game time from the 26 were 3 of the goalkeepers, Greg Taylor and the 2 injured boys (McKenna, Hanley). Everyone else got a chance. What's strange about that?

In all honesty, I completely forgot about Hanley and McKenna. Perhaps he could’ve called up a replacement for last night. Still think it’s odd to not use a whole squad in 180 minutes of friendlies. 

[2426255]

Just now, Matty-RCFC said:

In all honesty, I completely forgot about Hanley and McKenna. Perhaps he could’ve called up a replacement for last night. Still think it’s odd to not use a whole squad in 180 minutes of friendlies. 

Who did you want to see? A different goalkeeper? or Greg Taylor? 

[BB_Bino]

8 hours ago, TheScarf said:

The other take home for me tonight is that North Ireland fans are all fat dickheads.

Do you know what, I didn't even give it a thought until I got there....sitting close to the away section, looking across at a "Larkhall Loyal" flag being hung by a Union Jack cladded bit of gammon. I instantly gave myself a kick and thought "here we go" and they didn't disappoint. Only in Scotland can we be so divided, only in Scotland will you find people born here supporting nations against us....madness.

As the night went on it became clear that there weren't a lot of Irish accents near the divide,  about half of the support probably weren't born in the 6 counties and when it became about sticking Independence and Referendums up our backsides before doing the bouncy and singing about Rule Britannia, my heart sank even further. I just don't get it, I really don't get this side of our game up here. I've tried over the years but can't and I suppose that's the reaction that these people want.....I'm just glad that I'm not associated with it in any way. I feel sorry for the genuine N.Irish fan that has to have their own experiences over taken by these knuckle draggers.

[VictorOnopko]

5 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

Indeed...insanely optimistic, cheerfully deluded, and if you think that wriggling out of the group (which we won't do anyway) would make this Scotland team better than the 1928 Wembley Wizards or the 67 or 77 Scotland teams then that's an opinion alright..

This team has fewer stars than past Scotland squads but can play just as effectively as a team.  It would quite obviously be our best ever team achievement to get to the knock out stages of a major tournament. 

I think we might do it, you seem sure they won't. Fine.