DiegoDiego Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, Red Kite said: what must be the most competitive division in European football. I love when people add the qualifier "European" to claims like this. As if they're pretty confident it's the case for Europe, which they're familiar with, but are worried that there's some seaside league in Pakistan or Panama that's even more bampot than Scottish football. 22 minutes ago, GreenGray said: I like it to an extent, if you are a fan of the club that finishes seventh with no prospect of relegation it results in five meaningless games, but them's the breaks. Don't worry, maybe one time Hibs will reach the split in seventh with a very slight chance of relegation... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 If Raith Rovers, Partick Thistle and Dunfermline were lifted up along with Dundee United into a larger top league would this not diminish the Championship? Smaller crowds and weaker teams, or are we only interested in the top league? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, ropy said: If Raith Rovers, Partick Thistle and Dunfermline were lifted up along with Dundee United into a larger top league would this not diminish the Championship? Smaller crowds and weaker teams, or are we only interested in the top league? That's the thing that the "2 massive leagues and play each other twice" brigade fail to address. The drop off in quality, interest and resources when you go into the 2nd tier would be catastrophic. I abhor the OF dominance of our game and its endurance, but the 4 league structure, now it has meaningful playoffs* is magnificent. I love it. The continuum of size of club is just about right (now FFC are back on the up, at least ), and there's enough jeopardy that big teams like Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd can semi-regularly go down. *Next step is auto relegation for Team 42. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: ), and there's enough jeopardy that big teams like Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd can semi-regularly go down. I applaud your confirmation that Motherwell shouldn’t go down although your point may well be that we are not a big club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, ropy said: I applaud your confirmation that Motherwell shouldn’t go down although your point may well be that we are not a big club. Glad that subtlety was not wasted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Kite Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: I love when people add the qualifier "European" to claims like this. As if they're pretty confident it's the case for Europe, which they're familiar with, but are worried that there's some seaside league in Pakistan or Panama that's even more bampot than Scottish football. Don't worry, maybe one time Hibs will reach the split in seventh with a very slight chance of relegation... It is hard enough trying my best not to offend any Scots commenting on their league, without bringing Asia or Central America into the mix. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 44 minutes ago, ropy said: If Raith Rovers, Partick Thistle and Dunfermline were lifted up along with Dundee United into a larger top league would this not diminish the Championship? Smaller crowds and weaker teams, or are we only interested in the top league? Promote Ayr, Falkirk, Airdrie Utd, and Inverness instead then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: I love when people add the qualifier "European" to claims like this. As if they're pretty confident it's the case for Europe, which they're familiar with, but are worried that there's some seaside league in Pakistan or Panama that's even more bampot than Scottish football. Don't worry, maybe one time Hibs will reach the split in seventh with a very slight chance of relegation... Tbf are the league rules in Argentina/Brazil not absolutely insane? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 11 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Tbf are the league rules in Argentina/Brazil not absolutely insane? Apertura, Clausura, win percentages etc. I suppose you could claim it's "insane", but then we have a league where you only play some opponents three times, others four, clubs have differing numbers of Home and Away fixtures, and you usually end up playing at some venues three times in a season and others only once. Brazil has State Championships, but that's just a hangover from the days before they had an actual nationwide league. Some clubs can play a ridiculous number of domestic fixtures in a season though. 60'ish. Edited April 2 by Boo Khaki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: Apertura, Clausura, win percentages etc. I suppose you could claim it's "insane", but then we have a league where you only play some opponents three times, others four, clubs have differing numbers of Home and Away fixtures, and you usually end up playing at some venues three times in a season and others only once. Brazil has State Championships, but that's just a hangover from the days before they had an actual nationwide league. Some clubs can play a ridiculous number of domestic fixtures in a season though. 60'ish. Do the Brazilian leagues not use a multi-year average too? Sure that's how Santos got relegated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Do the Brazilian leagues not use a multi-year average too? Sure that's how Santos got relegated. Not sure what they use right now, but for years it was just straight promotion/relegation between Serie A/B, and playoffs to ascend to Serie C from the lower leagues and from Serie C up to B. Argentina has some sort of mad three-year points average thing, that I think came into being after they shat the bed when River Plate got relegated. Mexico has Apertura/Clausura as well IIRC Edited April 2 by Boo Khaki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudia Gentile Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 21 hours ago, Charles Stiles said: It's generally good apart from the issue with teams not playing each other the same number of times home and away. Funny that there are two clubs within the division that have never encountered this issue... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, Claudia Gentile said: Funny that there are two clubs within the division that have never encountered this issue... Was it Aberdeen that had two seasons on the spin where they were given 18 Home and 20 Away fixtures, and the League just shrugged? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 16 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: Argentina has some sort of mad three-year points average thing, that I think came into being after they shat the bed when River Plate got relegated. Think this is what I'm thinking of and got Brazil/Argentina, Santos/River Plate mixed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 17 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: Argentina has some sort of mad three-year points average thing, that I think came into being after they shat the bed when River Plate got relegated. It was already being done on averages. River Plate finished 3rd and 9th in the 20 team league the season they got relegated through the playoffs. I remember this previously rational and calm Argentinean girl I knew having an absolute Gold Forum-worthy head's gone over it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, DiegoDiego said: It was already being done on averages. River Plate finished 3rd and 9th in the 20 team league the season they got relegated through the playoffs. I remember this previously rational and calm Argentinean girl I knew having an absolute Gold Forum-worthy head's gone over it. Is it right than nobodies been relegated from their top flight for 4 seasons? Sure I read they just promote 2 teams every year and the leagues now massive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Is it right than nobodies been relegated from their top flight for 4 seasons? Sure I read they just promote 2 teams every year and the leagues now massive. They did go through a phase of that, expanding to 28 teams, with 15 of the current lot from greater BA. They've got rid of the apertura/clausura format and just gone for one big royal rumble. The bottom of the table gets relegated automatically, as does the three-season average for relegation. I did hear that they opted for the three-season average to determine relegation after seeing the disastrous effect Hamilton Academicals had on the Premiership. Edited April 2 by DiegoDiego 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: It was already being done on averages. River Plate finished 3rd and 9th in the 20 team league the season they got relegated through the playoffs. I remember this previously rational and calm Argentinean girl I knew having an absolute Gold Forum-worthy head's gone over it. This sounds like exactly the sort of thing that would be brought in by emergency decree in Scotland if, for arguments sake, one of the arsecheeks suddenly found themselves in a bit of sustained bother. Even funnier if it got one of them emptied. The best bit I remember about River's relegation is some guy on the FM forums who triggered an almighty pile-on by asking if starting a game as River was true to the spirit of "lower league" management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 11 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Is it right than nobodies been relegated from their top flight for 4 seasons? Sure I read they just promote 2 teams every year and the leagues now massive. Not exactly... the country is a basket case and their top division has been bouncing around with an extraordinary number of clubs for years (there were 30 from 2015 to 2017). Currently it's got 28 clubs playing 27 games... bottom + "worst in 3yr coefficient" = relegated. They've also introduced a League Cup - the only such in South America - in which clubs play whopping 14 group games then QFs > SFs > Final. So everybody gets minimum 41 games. They also have 3 different Supercups (1 played domestically; 1 played abroad between League and previous year's Supercup winners; 1 between League + League Cup winners). Edited April 2 by HibeeJibee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eder Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 The split is fucking awful. Leagues should be consistent and not open to human manipulation. However after 33 (uneven) games teams in 6th/7th place could be separated by a goal which would be fine if they had met their opponents an even number of times not three times clubs then have five other games with a system that is reliant on the same clubs from pervious seasons making up the top or bottom six. when it doesn't work out - who decides??? - who knows The only thing right is that they all play 38 games just against different opponents in a random mix of H&A fixtures. The fact that some clubs can end up playing less home matches to away that could affect European places and relegation should render it inadequate alone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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