AMMjag Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Starmer has built a majority on a load of shallow constituency leads and made himself accountable to the right on their racist immigration policies in doing so. I expect him to have his head repeatedly flushed down the toilet by an odious opposition for the next 5 years. For all that SNP (Holyrood especially) deserve a kicking, and for all that there are a number of dullards in the WM group who are no loss, they can at least be content that they have been a consistent and vocal opposition to Israeli war crimes and shipping asylum seekers to third world countries. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) 4 hours ago, virginton said: Fantasy island nonsense. The battle line for the next Holyrood election is perfectly obvious: both SNP and Labour will blame the other government for not being able to deliver. It will be an attritional slanging match that will make France v Portugal in the Euros look like a total football exhibition match. As more recent incumbents, all the advantage and incentive is with Labour to double down on that strategy. The SNP need to avoid that trap or they'll be in opposition. There will be no serious attempt at settling the union on different foundations because that's not what Unionism actually involves. It is about shutting up and eating your cereal. SLab have zero incentive to do anything about Devolution - it would be fantastic if they did do something positive regards more powers but that isn't going to happen. I agree that the SNP should avoid traps but equally they need to keep pushing - just don't choose pointless hills to die on. Keep hammering away about the democratic deficit - try to push Labour on how independence can legitimately be achieved (we all know they'll do f**k all) but also get the day-to-day bread and butter issues right, health and education being the big 2. If Labour do try something stupid (especially with Murray as SoS) then take full advantage. In the long run though they seriously need to consider the leadership of the party, move away from the Murrell control freakery and do things that matter to ordinary voters. Edited July 6 by DeeTillEhDeh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 4 hours ago, Jedi2 said: With a big majority at WM they have the opportunity to do this. Opportunity and giving a f**k are two different things, of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 7 hours ago, Fullerene said: People talk about how useless the last 5 Tory PMs have been but for me the worst was David Cameron who sowed the seeds for everything that followed. Ideologically he wanted a smaller state and used the global crisis to get it (with no small help from easily persuaded Liberal Democrats). Absolutely this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 7 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I agree about Cameron's utter culpability. However, Liz Truss was in a different league of awfulness. Indeed she was. But Cameron's ideology over a small state, then , to pacify his own party, granted an EU referendum, that opened pandoras box for the bat shit crazy right wingers in the party to run riit and wreck the country. He is wholly responsible for these events. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Bbc scotland news last night, was so gushing with glee at result is unashamed And in same piece straight onto mention of Scottish election in 2 years with wee note of campervan and ipad charges chucked in Will be absolutely gunning for snp ignoring any other issues 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 5 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said: Labour in Westminster and Hollyrood would be terrible for Scotland IMO. They are heavily London-centric and strongly Unionist. They'd turn Scotland into a UK region and bring us into line with one of their Upperramsbottomdonshires, killing off any of the good laws The SNP created. gender recognition showed exactly what will happen with Lab Lab parliaments We'll be getting telt, on the minimal powers we do have, on a regular basis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 50 minutes ago, Binos said: gender recognition showed exactly what will happen with Lab Lab parliaments We'll be getting telt, on the minimal powers we do have, on a regular basis If those powers even continued. I could see them trying to roll things back, because they’ll be scared of the SNP coming back again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 8 hours ago, Jedi2 said: For Holyrood Labour should also get in early to stress that they would keep free prescriptions, dental care, and no tuition fees for domestic students. In addition they have to come up with an offer of Devolving full taxation powers (including NI), Broadcasting, and parts of Immigration law. With a big majority at WM they have the opportunity to do this. Basically strengthening Devolution. Barnett should also be increasing from the current £41 billion. Have to answer the question of 'what can Labour do for Scotland', with WM Labour showing that they can make a genuine difference if both administrations are Labour. Can't and must not, just be rhetoric. Presumably the SNP will go with a 'pro-Indy majority' is a Referendum. Again, Labour can and should say that, while not agreeing that a Ref is necessary that they would 'recognise' that result and grant one, while offering enhanced Devolution and protection of SNP measures which are popular. They have a great opportunity from today to show that Scotland is important to them, and again of they fail to capitalise on that from this position, they would deserve the SNP to win again. They have to be 'serious' about resetting the relationship between WM and Holyrood now and be different from the Tories. Won't get a better chance. Take a look back tbrough the constitutional reform paper they put together in 2022. There was no significant further devolution for Scotland. Only a bit about how there would be a legal onus on "both sides" but in practice for Holyrood to cooperate with Westminster. That and a reformed 2nd chamber "of the regions and nations" which won't happen. What I'd expect to happen is for the SLab MPs to try and go round Holyrood where ever possible, expect direct funding to councils, eventually a mayoral model to be mooted. I don't think Labour, having birthed it, like devolution very much. It was designed to have Labour in there in Scotland in perpetuity. They were supposed to be nodding dogs when Labour were in at WM and a bulwark against Toryism when they werent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 9 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I agree about Cameron's utter culpability. However, Liz Truss was in a different league of awfulness. Nah, Truss is awful but Cameron was straight up evil. And the fact that he’s held up as a sensible and moderate Tory is even worse. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 2 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Nah, Truss is awful but Cameron was straight up evil. And the fact that he’s held up as a sensible and moderate Tory is even worse. Baron Cameron of Chipping Norton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 The thing is, Scotland has just enough institutions and culture to feel like a country without actually bothering with the problematic bit of having to think for ourselves. Honestly, if you want to see the Indy vote go through the roof, just get Fifa to tell the home nations it's a GB team or nothing, extinguish that single outward trace of our seperate existence and see what happens... But, if Labour want to shoot the SNP fox, they would offer more powers to Holyrood and codify a referendum mechanism in law, but under such restrictive terms it'd be practically useless and most Scots would lap that up. A parliament we can point at, to say we are our own boss and a theoretical exit door we can use whenever we like (but can't really) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudia Gentile Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) Glasgow and Edinburgh mayors (and maybe other Scottish cities too) was doing the rounds on a podcast the other day. It’s a decent idea IMO. Seems to work well down South. Edited July 6 by JS_FFC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Just now, Claudia Gentile said: Are they the only football clubs in the entire UK to have a Tory MP? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 2 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: Glasgow and Edinburgh mayors (and maybe other Scottish cities too) was doing the rounds on a podcast the other day. It’s a decent idea IMO. Seems to work well down South. The last thing we need is an added layer of government. f**k that. I'm sick of the councils blaming Holyrood, Holyrood blaming Westminster and vice versa. Forever and ever in a circle. Politics in Scotland is just one gigantic blame game and mayors would just be another addition to that 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Not Mayors but elected Lord Provosts in Scotland shirley ? It probably makes sense in a place the size of London, but somewhere like Dundee, it seems pretty pointless. Another party drone to vote for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 34 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: Glasgow and Edinburgh mayors (and maybe other Scottish cities too) was doing the rounds on a podcast the other day. It’s a decent idea IMO. Seems to work well down South. It's an awful idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 minute ago, renton said: It's an awful idea. ^^^ this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudia Gentile Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 38 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: Are they the only football clubs in the entire UK to have a Tory MP? Yup. Only league teams 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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