eez-eh Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 23 hours ago, JS_FFC said: We almost certainly would be fine on 6 points, but it’d feel horrible to win two games and still only finish third. Why? Both second and third in our group will play a group winner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 14 minutes ago, eez-eh said: Why? Both second and third in our group will play a group winner. Yeah I know, but I’d have a strong preference for qualifying outright rather than on a technicality (same way I much preferred making this euros through the qualifiers outright than the nations league playoffs). Theres nothing wrong with coming third but it’s better to aim for 2nd and not leave anything to chance. If we come 3rd and still qualify we’ll be celebrating but the aim has to be 2nd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Ro Sham Bo said: Time to bamboozle the Swiss completely... I like it, I think they would be less prepared for this situation occuring at 7pm on Wednesday though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 36 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: Yeah I know, but I’d have a strong preference for qualifying outright rather than on a technicality (same way I much preferred making this euros through the qualifiers outright than the nations league playoffs). Theres nothing wrong with coming third but it’s better to aim for 2nd and not leave anything to chance. If we come 3rd and still qualify we’ll be celebrating but the aim has to be 2nd. Guy that is miserable about winning on penalties because they should have won the match in 90 minutes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, itzdrk said: Guy that is miserable about winning on penalties because they should have won the match in 90 minutes. This is a disingenuous post. No team sets out to win a match on penalties, just the way no one sets out to come 3rd in this format. If you aim for 2nd, you might well get 3rd. If you just aim for 3rd, there’s a high chance you’ll finish bottom or be one of the unlucky two third placed teams. Let me be absolutely clear, it’s 99.9% certain we’ll qualify if we win our last two matches. We’d almost certainly finish 2nd in that scenario. Even if we didn’t finish 2nd, we are already guaranteed to finish above the third place team of group C and all it takes is one game to be a draw from any of B, D, E or F to seal it. That’s 21 matches from which we’d need only one of them to be a draw. Missing out with 4 points isn’t impossible though. At the last euros all it would have taken is Ukraine to get a point off Austria and Slovakia to have gotten one off Sweden (both lost 1-0). Then you’d have had five 3rd placed teams on 4 points. Given our goal difference it’s highly likely that we’d be unlucky if it came down to GD. Again at the previous euros you just needed draws in a couple of 1-0 games (Turkey v Croatia and Northern Ireland v Poland) as well as Albania not chucking away a point to France with two injury time goals and then it would have been a tiebreak at 4 points. The point I’m trying to make is that we shouldn’t rely on 4 points here. We need to go all out to get the 6. The two things I don’t want to see are us playing for a point on Wednesday in order to “take it to the last day”, or if we win tomorrow I don’t think we should play for a point on Sunday. If we get 6 we will very likely finish 2nd and if we don’t we will almost certainly be a 3rd place qualifier. If we get 4 I still think we have a decent chance but I don’t want to rely on it. It’ll be a nervy few days from Monday to Wednesday if we are in that position. 3 points almost certainly isn’t going to cut it given our goal difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Just now, JS_FFC said: This is a disingenuous post. No team sets out to win a match on penalties, just the way no one sets out to come 3rd in this format. If you aim for 2nd, you might well get 3rd. If you just aim for 3rd, there’s a high chance you’ll finish bottom or be one of the unlucky two third placed teams. Let me be absolutely clear, it’s 99.9% certain we’ll qualify if we win our last two matches. We’d almost certainly finish 2nd in that scenario. Even if we didn’t finish 2nd, we are already guaranteed to finish above the third place team of group C and all it takes is one game to be a draw from any of B, D, E or F to seal it. That’s 21 matches from which we’d need only one of them to be a draw. Missing out with 4 points isn’t impossible though. At the last euros all it would have taken is Ukraine to get a point off Austria and Slovakia to have gotten one off Sweden (both lost 1-0). Then you’d have had five 3rd placed teams on 4 points. Given our goal difference it’s highly likely that we’d be unlucky if it came down to GD. Again at the previous euros you just needed draws in a couple of 1-0 games (Turkey v Croatia and Northern Ireland v Poland) as well as Albania not chucking away a point to France with two injury time goals and then it would have been a tiebreak at 4 points. The point I’m trying to make is that we shouldn’t rely on 4 points here. We need to go all out to get the 6. The two things I don’t want to see are us playing for a point on Wednesday in order to “take it to the last day”, or if we win tomorrow I don’t think we should play for a point on Sunday. If we get 6 we will very likely finish 2nd and if we don’t we will almost certainly be a 3rd place qualifier. If we get 4 I still think we have a decent chance but I don’t want to rely on it. It’ll be a nervy few days from Monday to Wednesday if we are in that position. 3 points almost certainly isn’t going to cut it given our goal difference. Fair play for not backing down here and go full on double down. Scotland qualify from a group at a major tournament for their first time in their history. Fans across the country are celebrating and looking forward to our first ever knock out tie. You on the other hand, are miserable because we qualified as a best third place team. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonHMFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: The point I’m trying to make is that we shouldn’t rely on 4 points here. We need to go all out to get the 6. The two things I don’t want to see are us playing for a point on Wednesday in order to “take it to the last day”, or if we win tomorrow I don’t think we should play for a point on Sunday. "We know that, so we have to get four points in the next two games." From Clarke's press conference this morning. Like yourself I would not be keen on aiming to just nick a draw on Wednesday, but I think we all know that is what we will set up for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 3 minutes ago, LondonHMFC said: "We know that, so we have to get four points in the next two games." From Clarke's press conference this morning. Like yourself I would not be keen on aiming to just nick a draw on Wednesday, but I think we all know that is what we will set up for. A draw would be a good result on Wednesday, not great but good. Especially given the context of how the first games went for both teams. The Swiss are buzzing and full of confidence, we are the opposite. A Swiss win is certainly more likely than a Scottish one, so I think most of us would take a point here. Then we go into the Hungary game - who will likely already be effectively out after losing to the Germans - knowing a win puts us through. Edited June 17 by Lex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, Lex said: A draw would be a good result on Wednesday, not great but good. Especially given the context of how the first games went for both teams. The Swiss are buzzing and full of confidence, we are the opposite. A Swiss win is certainly more likely than a Scottish one, so I think most of us would take a point here. Then we go into the Hungary game - who will likely already be effectively out after losing to the Germans - knowing a win puts us through. And then we will lose 3-0 to Hungary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Onion Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 8 minutes ago, Lex said: Fair play for not backing down here and go full on double down. Scotland qualify from a group at a major tournament for their first time in their history. Fans across the country are celebrating and looking forward to our first ever knock out tie. You on the other hand, are miserable because we qualified as a best third place team. I'm sure this guy would hand his winnings back on the lottery for hitting the jackpot after putting a wrong number on the ticket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 21 minutes ago, Lex said: Fair play for not backing down here and go full on double down. Scotland qualify from a group at a major tournament for their first time in their history. Fans across the country are celebrating and looking forward to our first ever knock out tie. You on the other hand, are miserable because we qualified as a best third place team. Where have I said I’ll be miserable? I’ll be buzzing like the rest of us. All I’ve said is that we have to AIM to win both games. If we do that and end up getting 4 points and sneaking through, happy days! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I do find it a bit odd that clarke has been so explicit about targeting 4 points. I don’t think that’s a great approach but whatever. I suspect we’ll be very defensive for the opening 20 mins or even the first half. Which I think is important tbh, the number of goals we’ve been conceding is undermining everything and it undermines confidence throughout the team. If we can build that confidence in ourselves from the back we can play our way into the game and start to hurt them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: I do find it a bit odd that clarke has been so explicit about targeting 4 points. I don’t think that’s a great approach but whatever. I suspect we’ll be very defensive for the opening 20 mins or even the first half. Which I think is important tbh, the number of goals we’ve been conceding is undermining everything and it undermines confidence throughout the team. If we can build that confidence in ourselves from the back we can play our way into the game and start to hurt them. I don’t think a draw tomorrow is a disaster but I think playing for a draw will probably lead to a defeat. If it gets to 75 minutes at 0-0 and both teams seem happy with their point, then fair enough. But I think going in with the intention of playing for a point is the wrong approach here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Parr Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 A narrow Swiss victory, with an improved showing from Scotland, feels like the most likely outcome. Regardless, even if we do get something here, there's not one sweet chance we're coming through both of these matches without losing at least once. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 20 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: I don’t think a draw tomorrow is a disaster but I think playing for a draw will probably lead to a defeat. If it gets to 75 minutes at 0-0 and both teams seem happy with their point, then fair enough. But I think going in with the intention of playing for a point is the wrong approach here. Thats not what I said at all though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Thats not what I said at all though. I was agreeing with you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 9 minutes ago, JS_FFC said: I was agreeing with you. Fair enough. Apologies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Just now, Dons_1988 said: Fair enough. Apologies. Specifically I was replying to the “I don’t think that’s a great approach” bit (in full agreement). Apologies, I should have just quoted that bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 hours ago, Savage Henry said: Perhaps, but Clark would just as likely let a pass back trundle over his foot for an own goal. Gunn is our best keeper by quite some considerable margin. He’s not great, but he’s easily the best we’ve got and is going to start against Switzerland. Likewise Adams. Has that ever happened? Genuine question btw? He's had a farily good season for Hearts both at home and in Europe. Gunn didn't even want to play for us and didn't exactly cover himself in glory the other night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, Coooombe said: Gunn Ralston Hendry Hanley Tierney Gilmour McGregor McGinn McTominay Robertson Shankland Ditch 5 at the back That's literally just our "in possession" shape when playing a back 5? If you're changing to a back 4 and wingers you have to actually change the profile of players there. It's pointless playing Robertson/McGinn as "wingers" as that's the exact same issue we have just now, neither can beat someone consistently 1v1. If you want a back 4 you have to put a Morgan or Forrest in there on at least one side to make a "change of shape" actually happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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