Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 v 🇭🇺 Hungary

[FalkirkBairn2021]

Special mention to our set pieces too. Reminded me of school football where you have guys at the back post but forget wee Malky on the wing who is taking it is 4 feet 3 and can't kick the ball more than 10 yards. 

 

[RandomGuy.]

The next "football review" is quite clearly going to only be used to filter more money to "Project Brave" clubs, and allow B-Teams promotion and a place higher up the pyramid.

The idea it'll actually change anything worthwhile is naive.

[Tartan Dave]

A da and his boy had a proper fight in the stands near me last night. Be a frosty plane home I imagine 

[Sheas_cake]

Clarke has done well to qualify us for the last two Euros, however both actual tournament performances were utterly woeful, negative and we've gone out with a whimper on both occasions. I'd honestly be on board with binning Clarke after that shitshow last night. How on earth can we have no shots on target in a must-win game against a team of relatively similar quality to ourselves?

Why take off Gilmour, the ONE player capable of retaining possession in the middle of the park before the mass of stoppage time which seemed to consist of Scotland giving away possession, resulting in wave after wave of Hungary attacks?

Didn't we have like 4 shots on target across the three games? That's fucking pathetic. 

The cap all that with a total YER DA rant whine about the ref being Argentinian, just get the hopeless, dour, negative c**t emptied and literally beg Moyes to take the job. 

[An Absolute Imposter]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

The next "football review" is quite clearly going to only be used to filter more money to "Project Brave" clubs, and allow B-Teams promotion and a place higher up the pyramid.

The idea it'll actually change anything worthwhile is naive.

Remind what was 'Project Brave', feckin title says it all about Scottish feckin mentality. Its a game if football not a feckin battle in the 12th ir 13th century.

Have you seen how many Scottish boys actually played for the two B teams, (Hearts do play local youngsters), not a lot.

The idea that our future superstars will flourish and develop into international footbalkers playing joiners and teachers and painter&decorators is laughable.

 

[rainbowrising]

I didn't realise until this morning that Clarke questioned why the Ref is "not back in his own country". About as petty as it gets. A nice sign-off for this squad. Bravo. 

[DukDukGoose]

48 minutes ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

I thought Hungary were terrible given they absolutely had to win and we are pisspoor. 

Saw them give Germany loads of trouble in game 2 and expected more of the same. They were 15 seconds away from Hungarian p and b mauling them. 

 

Reflecting more on the game I think we're far too pleased with ourselves finding someone 3 yards away and keeping possession. Pretty sure after 25 mind we'd completed 200 passes and Hungary 44. Wow. Awesome. 

I don't see how it gets better unless we find a manager who is progressive and we are prepared to lose to win. Bit like that Georgia performance against Turkey. Could have been 7-5 either way. I'm not sure we're there yet. 

Hungary has the best chances and were unlucky not to score long before us.

They had a plan to win the game. Yes, it involved sitting back and letting us have the ball but that's generally how teams play against a better side who are pragmatic.

I watched it for years under McInnes and then again under Robson.

Clark has never evolved how he plays once he found a system to suit. As @RandomGuy.says, Hungary could have prepared for this game six months ago because it was so obviously how we were going to set up.

I'm not expecting Pep or even Arteta levels of evolution but you have to do something.

[tamba_trio]

1 hour ago, JMDP said:

The Hungarian coaching staff clearly watched the Gibraltar game and realised we aren't good enough to break teams down that sit in, given how we play. 

It seemed crazy to me how we just switched the button from the cautious formation to baws oot mentalism. After the first half, a switch to 4231 with two genuine wide players would have been more attacking without the gaping holes we left when we went for it. 

Clarke has done well to get us there and we were genuinely impressive in qualifying. It's no lack of effort obviously but two games that were a massive opportunity lost - injuries played a huge part (Dykes and Hickey make us a far better side) but we still should have turned in far better performances than we did. 

Yeah - there's stages between 5 at the back and the HEADLESS CHICKEN'S CHARGE FORWARD of the last 10 minutes. I actually thought the last 10 minutes were worse tactically than the Clarkenaccio we'd played up till then (Hungary were more desperate for a goal than us, it should've been us picking them off as the game wore on).

That aside, yes, our players are pish. I remember - the best part of 20 years ago now - Gordon Strachan talking about how much more composed the foreign players were at Celtic. But he was guilty too - the default was always DIG with Hartley or Robson when it came to it. 

Our game never seems to value players with touch and skill on the ball (Paul Lambert is a decent example - a decade with St Mirren and Motherwell then he wins the Champions League within a year of leaving Scotlandl.

 

[GallowayBlue]

Did anyone else have the feeling that Scotland just really didn't want to draw?

Would have meant hanging about a bit longer, waiting on results etc.

Not saying that they flogged a goal by any means, but the totally open all out attack effort at the end was all or nothing when maybe that wasn't required.

[Unleash The Nade]

30 minutes ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

Special mention to our set pieces too. Reminded me of school football where you have guys at the back post but forget wee Malky on the wing who is taking it is 4 feet 3 and can't kick the ball more than 10 yards. 

 

We had McTominay , who at 6’3 and one of the best headers of the ball in our team taking corners!

WTF ? 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

Just now, Unleash The Nade said:

We had McTominay , who at 6’3 and one of the best headers of the ball in our team taking corners!

WTF ? 

Unbelievable.  And they were terrible too. 

Just thinking about the 3 games again and we've scored 2 goals both of which were total fuckups by a defender. 

Just embarrassing 

[Diamonds are Forever]

58 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

All the comments berating Clarke; do you seriously think a change of coach will miraculously improve the quality of the players we are producing.

 

No, but those 2 things have nothing to do with each other, so I'm not sure the relevance of the question?

The question is whether people think a new coach would get more out of the players we actually have, which is obviously up for debate. But I'm watching other sides in this tournament with similar players than us get results, and watching sides with far worse players than us (Albania and Georgia) picking up the same, maybe more, points as us whilst also playing in a way which I think all fans would accept even if we lost.

Edited June 24 by Diamonds are Forever

[FalkirkBairn2021]

37 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Yeah tactics were shite, but can you deny the basic lack of football skills in a number of the players on show.

No first touch, no movement without the ball, no basic passing, lack of awareness, no game management.

My pet hate in our game is the lack of options the player in possession has, watch just about every other country. Players are moving off the ball creating angles and out balls keeping the move flowing.

One incident has stuck with me from the first half; Gilmour had the ball just shy of centre-circle, McGregor was 3 metres away actually behind 2 Magyars. Not an isolated incident.

Watch other teams they move around the park in small groups of 2 or 3, pasing and moving. Creating angles and keeping the possession flowing, moving the opposition and creating space for other players. We are static a player receives a ball in isolation with either no or little option of progression.

As a young player can't ever recall being encouraged to love the ball, to create a relationship with it. Just get it up the park. Was only encouraged to play with the ball when moved down to England for work. Actually became a ball playing sweeper, and enjoyed my football. 

 

Oh and I knew i was a shite player, but improved when coached and encouraged properly.

Just think what could happen with talented players encouraged to love the ball.

 

Mmm. I think last night there was far too much 'loving the ball'. 10 yard square passes. A triangle of defenders and midfielders knocking it past a lone Hungarian. Retaining possession. Pass the way you're facing. Don't turn into trouble. Make the ball do the work. 

This is absolutely useless unless you have a goal threat. We have none.

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

All the comments berating Clarke; do you seriously think a change of coach will miraculously improve the quality of the players we are producing.

This is a silly post unless you think clarke got the best out of the 24 or so players he had last night. and if you do then I’d strongly disagree. 

Not a difficult concept that there are multiple facets to these failures, but Steve clarkes job is to maximise what he gets out of the existing resources through preparation, how they’re deployed and how he reacts to what is happening in the game.

Development of talent is irrelevant to what happened last night, unless like I say you think we can’t do any better with this team. 

[saint in exile]

The managements idea of trying something different was McTominay taking corners!

[saint in exile]

4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This is a silly post unless you think clarke got the best out of the 24 or so players he had last night. and if you do then I’d strongly disagree. 

Not a difficult concept that there are multiple facets to these failures, but Steve clarkes job is to maximise what he gets out of the existing resources through preparation, how they’re deployed and how he reacts to what is happening in the game.

Development of talent is irrelevant to what happened last night, unless like I say you think we can’t do any better with this team. 

Considering most of the squad dont play in Scotland I'd say you're spot on

[Bad Wolf]

I don't have much to add, but I'll say this - McGregor did make one forward pass,a round the 28 minute mark. I noted this for it's novelty value and didn't expect to see it repeated. Ralston was our best player, yes I know, but it's true. Gunn, Hanley and Hendry to a lesser extent were competent. Gilmour wasn't at his best, perhaps because he had no-one to pass to. McGinn has been off it for six months, Robertson for longer; both were downright poor in all three games.

 

I think it's time for Clarke to go, and would agree that both Moyes and McInnes would be more of the same; so time for a proven foreign coach, who realistically is unlikely to be top drawer, but there must be someone who can improve us.

[renton]

5 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This is a silly post unless you think clarke got the best out of the 24 or so players he had last night. and if you do then I’d strongly disagree. 

Not a difficult concept that there are multiple facets to these failures, but Steve clarkes job is to maximise what he gets out of the existing resources through preparation, how they’re deployed and how he reacts to what is happening in the game.

Development of talent is irrelevant to what happened last night, unless like I say you think we can’t do any better with this team. 

Agree with this. Clarke's game plan is built on Tierney breaking lines from CB, allowing him or Robertson to overlap and provide width down that side, and having a hold up player in the striker position to allow runners beyond him. He can legitimately point to injuries preventing his system for working as intended, but not for persisting with a system that can't work without the right players in it.

His job is to set the team up with some kind of pathway to success, where was that last night? He needed width and did nothing about it all game. If your system is flat without the right players, change the system, and even with injuries - in McTominay, Gilmour, McGinn we still should have guys good enough to create issues for the opposition if set up correctly.

[qos_75]

Clarke and the team deserved praise for qualifying. However we haven’t laid a glove on anyone since Cyprus last September. 

Apparently playing the likes of England, France and the Netherlands etc on a regular basis will make us better. The thinking being that we will learn more from the clinical way we are brushed aside in these matches going forward.  

That may well be the case, but I didn’t see any evidence of learnings being taken on board at this tournament. 

Maybe the plan all along was take our medicine against Germany. Then try and scrape a point with the Swiss. Keep it tight against Hungary for 85 minutes then go for it. That being the case it almost worked.

Overall Clarke has been good for us. However, there is no denying the last two Euros and the World Cup play-offs have been terrible. 
 

[forameus]

Hungary ended up playing a largely perfect gameplan, albeit a pretty dangerous one from their perspective.  It was clear they were going to set up to give us the ball, safe in the knowledge that we would almost certainly struggle to do anything with it.  They could sit in front of us exerting little pressure, hoping that that would be enough to keep it tight until late in the game when they'd come out and try and kill us off as we tired.  That's a risky play to make, but it worked out for them in the end.  I think if Gunn doesn't almost decapitate their forward and we don't get that long stoppage, Hungary score earlier as they looked to be in the ascendancy.  They fell off a bit after the stoppage, understandably, but in the last 15 or so there was only ever going to be one team scoring.

No idea what the general consensus is on the penalty here, but for me I just don't understand why it isn't at least being followed up on with VAR.  But even if we get that, the way we're playing I'd imagine we find a way to put that off target too.  We didn't go out because of a penalty we probably should have got.  If we'd sneaked a 1-0, if you can't lift yourself to win a game against Hungary when you absolutely have to, I shudder to think what a McTominay-less Scotland would do in the knockouts against a group winner.