the chimp Posted Friday at 21:28 Share Posted Friday at 21:28 I’d take anyone who hasn’t had the mentality bred in to them that makes them say - were to wee a population- we don’t have the players - we must be hard to beat - we don’t want to get embarrassed , so that means a foreigner . I often wonder how we’d have got on had we given vogts the 5 years he asked for ? We sacked him coming up to the 3 year point when he’d capped any and everyone and made his mistakes , Smith came in steadied the ship but didn’t have to make the mistakes Vogt’s made for him , Smith made us respectable and competitive again but still never went for it ie Ukraine away a pumping . Mcleish next , he was in my opinion just lucky and continued smiths team which was in my opinion Vogt’s unfinished team , just a thought 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted Friday at 22:03 Share Posted Friday at 22:03 33 minutes ago, the chimp said: I’d take anyone who hasn’t had the mentality bred in to them that makes them say - were to wee a population- we don’t have the players - we must be hard to beat - we don’t want to get embarrassed , so that means a foreigner . I often wonder how we’d have got on had we given vogts the 5 years he asked for ? We sacked him coming up to the 3 year point when he’d capped any and everyone and made his mistakes , Smith came in steadied the ship but didn’t have to make the mistakes Vogt’s made for him , Smith made us respectable and competitive again but still never went for it ie Ukraine away a pumping . Mcleish next , he was in my opinion just lucky and continued smiths team which was in my opinion Vogt’s unfinished team , just a thought Berti Vogts was an absolute charlatan. We'd have continued dropping like a stone if he'd stayed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted Friday at 23:11 Share Posted Friday at 23:11 Vogts was awful. We don’t need to do revisionist history on his tenure just because some of his successors (Burley in particular) were just as bad. The correct answer on Vogts lies somewhere in between the weirdly prevalent opinion among some Scotland fans (that he was somehow “not that bad”) and the SFA view which has been so spooked by his tenure that they still refuse to consider Johnny Foreigner 20 years on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted Saturday at 00:32 Share Posted Saturday at 00:32 (edited) Players are more important than a manager. If Steve Clarke were in charge of Germany in Euro 96, they still would've won. Why? They had the best team. I knew a German back in the day who scoffed when we appointed Berti, as in his words "Vogts was in the right place at the right time during Euro 96". It's about time we focused on developing superstars. If we do, it won't really matter who's in charge. Till we can produce a higher standard of player, the sooner we'll be able to compete . At the moment we're expecting a manager to turn coal into diamonds. Totes a brilliant tactic. Hasn't worked so far, but let's keep doing it. Bah! Which countries succeed with developing superstars. Let's keep producing the likes of Shankland, Ralston, etc. Spain, Portugal, etc, don't know what they're missing. Multi-million pound players? Pft! Who needs it! That's pretentiousness Is what it is. All we need is a world class manager. Worked so well In '86. Oh. Anyone remember when Everton went on to dominant the EPL and European football when they appointed Carlo Ancelotti? Yeah. Me, neither. It's almost as if appointed a world class manager won't make average players play like prime Brazil. Who da thunk it. Edited Saturday at 02:45 by Chripper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Simao Posted Saturday at 00:56 Share Posted Saturday at 00:56 (edited) Aye, we should just start focusing on producing world class talent from nowhere and they will do well regardless of whichever negative shitebag is in charge, brilliant analysis. Edited Saturday at 01:00 by Miguel Simao 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted Saturday at 05:41 Share Posted Saturday at 05:41 For the vote in this thread we are voting for who will be manager. Should we no vote for who should be manager? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted Saturday at 08:33 Share Posted Saturday at 08:33 What a load of nonsense, a team of superstars will win regardless of what manager they have? The Man city team springs to mind here, a team full of great players ( great now anyway due to Peps coaching abilities) but with Pep, they have become so difficult to overcome, no other team can come close to winning the Premier league. Anyone remember the galacticos at Real Madrid, surely they would of scooped up the CL and LA Liga each season since they had the world best players in each position? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted Monday at 00:40 Share Posted Monday at 00:40 On 28/06/2024 at 17:32, Chripper said: Players are more important than a manager. If Steve Clarke were in charge of Germany in Euro 96, they still would've won. Why? They had the best team. I knew a German back in the day who scoffed when we appointed Berti, as in his words "Vogts was in the right place at the right time during Euro 96". It's about time we focused on developing superstars. If we do, it won't really matter who's in charge. Till we can produce a higher standard of player, the sooner we'll be able to compete . At the moment we're expecting a manager to turn coal into diamonds. Totes a brilliant tactic. Hasn't worked so far, but let's keep doing it. Bah! Which countries succeed with developing superstars. Let's keep producing the likes of Shankland, Ralston, etc. Spain, Portugal, etc, don't know what they're missing. Multi-million pound players? Pft! Who needs it! That's pretentiousness Is what it is. All we need is a world class manager. Worked so well In '86. Oh. Anyone remember when Everton went on to dominant the EPL and European football when they appointed Carlo Ancelotti? Yeah. Me, neither. It's almost as if appointed a world class manager won't make average players play like prime Brazil. Who da thunk it. Delete this nonsense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted Monday at 02:10 Share Posted Monday at 02:10 On 29/06/2024 at 01:32, Chripper said: Players are more important than a manager. If Steve Clarke were in charge of Germany in Euro 96, they still would've won. Why? They had the best team. I knew a German back in the day who scoffed when we appointed Berti, as in his words "Vogts was in the right place at the right time during Euro 96". It's about time we focused on developing superstars. If we do, it won't really matter who's in charge. Till we can produce a higher standard of player, the sooner we'll be able to compete . At the moment we're expecting a manager to turn coal into diamonds. Totes a brilliant tactic. Hasn't worked so far, but let's keep doing it. Bah! Which countries succeed with developing superstars. Let's keep producing the likes of Shankland, Ralston, etc. Spain, Portugal, etc, don't know what they're missing. Multi-million pound players? Pft! Who needs it! That's pretentiousness Is what it is. All we need is a world class manager. Worked so well In '86. Oh. Anyone remember when Everton went on to dominant the EPL and European football when they appointed Carlo Ancelotti? Yeah. Me, neither. It's almost as if appointed a world class manager won't make average players play like prime Brazil. Who da thunk it. Aye mate, that’s why this England side are bodying teams left, right and centre with about 5 world class attackers. Utter nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted Monday at 05:42 Share Posted Monday at 05:42 On 29/06/2024 at 01:32, Chripper said: . Multi-million pound players? Pft! Who needs it! That's pretentiousness Is what it is. We have plenty of multi million pound players. Even Stuart Armstrong is on £50k a week. There are only three Slovakian players on that kind of money. Problem is, playing negative, risk-free football works for a while and gets you results, but if that is all you ever play it eventually corrodes the soul of your players. Remember, they started playing football for fun, because they enjoyed it. Turn it into a dull repetitive task and eventually your squad regresses. Look at England, they don't even look like they have basic skills these days. They are not enjoying it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted Monday at 05:52 Share Posted Monday at 05:52 4 minutes ago, immcinto said: .Even Stuart Armstrong is on £50k a week. This is more a damning indictment of how stupid the money in the English game is than it is an endorsement of Armstrong's abilities. How many of the other "wee" nations that trotted out at this Euros would Armstrong get regular game time for? Bear in mind we finished as the worst ranked team of the lot and he barely got on the field for us. I don't think domestic earnings can really be used as an outright indicator of ability because there is a fair bit more to it than simple better player = higher wages. Armstrong counts as a UK player for English teams, he speaks English, and is evidently a comfortable fit for an English club. I doubt you'd find many Bundesliga, Serie A, or Liga teams looking to poach him and pay him 50k a week though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted Monday at 06:24 Share Posted Monday at 06:24 18 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: This is more a damning indictment of how stupid the money in the English game is than it is an endorsement of Armstrong's abilities. How many of the other "wee" nations that trotted out at this Euros would Armstrong get regular game time for? Bear in mind we finished as the worst ranked team of the lot and he barely got on the field for us. I don't think domestic earnings can really be used as an outright indicator of ability because there is a fair bit more to it than simple better player = higher wages. Armstrong counts as a UK player for English teams, he speaks English, and is evidently a comfortable fit for an English club. I doubt you'd find many Bundesliga, Serie A, or Liga teams looking to poach him and pay him 50k a week though. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/stuart-armstrong-fiorentina-fulham-transfer-32940616 Fiorentina were interested. I get your point about salaries not necessarily equating to ability, but there must be some relationship. I know we were the worst ranked team. This thread is about why that is the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Diamond For Me Posted Monday at 11:23 Share Posted Monday at 11:23 Vogts inherited a creaking Scotland squad, and his reputation for handing out caps like sweeties was partially driven by necessity. A look at his managerial career post Scotland, though, should put paid to any idea that he was the one that got away. In 2007 he took Nigeria to their worst AFCON performance since 1982 (out in the QF), did reasonably well with Azerbaijan at first, then got sacked, partially due to a failure to beat diddy teams they should have been beating (sound familiar?). Then a couple of years as a technical coach at the USA until Klinsmann got punted. He's not been hired by the teams that are at our level now, or the next step up, where we want to be. Nothing he's done since leaving Scotland would make you think, "Ach, we should have held on to that guy, we'd have had a truly mighty Mannschaft by 2008 or so." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted Monday at 18:38 Share Posted Monday at 18:38 What credentials should the New Saviour have? 1) Someone with experience of international tournaments and CL 2) Someone with a track record of doing reasonably well with limited playing talent 3) A deep tactical thinker (and someone who can string a coherent sentence together) 4) Someone with a connection to Scotland, even a tenuous one 5) Someone who doesn’t talk shite after losing a match 6) Someone doing ok with his present club, but a club known for firing tons of managers, freeing him up should Safety Steve jack it in after the NL qualies. Who might that be, then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted Monday at 19:11 Share Posted Monday at 19:11 On 28/06/2024 at 22:28, the chimp said: I’d take anyone who hasn’t had the mentality bred in to them that makes them say - were to wee a population- we don’t have the players - we must be hard to beat - we don’t want to get embarrassed , so that means a foreigner . I often wonder how we’d have got on had we given vogts the 5 years he asked for ? We sacked him coming up to the 3 year point when he’d capped any and everyone and made his mistakes , Smith came in steadied the ship but didn’t have to make the mistakes Vogt’s made for him , Smith made us respectable and competitive again but still never went for it ie Ukraine away a pumping . Mcleish next , he was in my opinion just lucky and continued smiths team which was in my opinion Vogt’s unfinished team , just a thought With Vogts still in charge we would not have had Davie Weir playing which , I dislike saying , would not have been beneficial to us 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Scotia Posted Monday at 19:24 Share Posted Monday at 19:24 Michael O'Neil. Based purely on I saw his Brechin side (donkeys ago) play Rangers and they were outstanding. Passed well and attacked at every opportunity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted Monday at 20:49 Share Posted Monday at 20:49 2 hours ago, nate said: What credentials should the New Saviour have? 4) Someone with a connection to Scotland, even a tenuous one 4) Someone with no connection to Scottish football, even a tenuous one Fixed that one for you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted Monday at 21:23 Share Posted Monday at 21:23 Unless Steve Clarke walks out of his contract, we should mothball this thread and bump it in July 2026. I can't see Clarke leaving, nor can I see the SFA sacking him. Let's face it, the only (alleged) Scotland fans who can conceivably want Steve Clarke gone are the ones who want to return to the two decades of unsuccessful qualifications, so they have justification for being miserably gits. I have no time for the aforementioned people. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted Monday at 21:43 Share Posted Monday at 21:43 15 minutes ago, Chripper said: I have no time for the aforementioned people. The evidence would suggest otherwise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie adie Posted 20 hours ago Share Posted 20 hours ago Vogts was hamstrung by following on from Brown, who had been too loyal to certain players and probably should have started reconstruction of the national team before he stepped down. Vogts just went crazy capping anyone he probably went too far down the opposite route 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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