24th out of 24

[Nightmare]

2 hours ago, forameus said:

This I don't agree with though.  I think we got lucky when Glasgow turned into Atlantis and we got that win.  I wonder if all being equal they might have given us more trouble like they did in Tbilisi.  With international football being cyclical, I wonder if we simply met Georgia at the perfect time when we hadn't quite started going downhill and Georgia hadn't got their head of steam up yet.  

 

What does "all being equal" in relation to that rainy game mean? That night at Hampden, the conditions were equal(ly dreadful) for both sides.

They're a poor side who wouldn't be in the Euros if it wasn't for the Nations League playoff setup which allows certain "diddy" countries to qualify when they wouldn't have been able to via the full qualification groups. And yet Georgia have done that, and then turned up and shown us up in the group stages. Congratulations to them for that, but it's a terrible look for Scotland imo.

Edited June 27 by Nightmare

[The Other Foot]

It’s not the fans I’m bothered by. They have precisely zero impact on the performance of the team, good on them for having some fun.

 

It’s when the players insist on acting like wee boys, devoid of any semblance of wisdom, that I get pissed off. What was the fannying around with Bavarian dancing about? They just need to get their heads down, take these competitions a bit more seriously. 

[kennie makevin]

5 hours ago, MarkoRaj said:

Genuinely was a bit depressed watching the 2 games last night.

The Georgia win is tempered by the fact they were playing a Portugal B team that could barely be arsed.

I was more bothered by 10 man Czech fighting til the end and creating numerous chances even though they were eventually outgunned. And earlier watching ordinary teams like Slovenia and Romania going right at each other even though a draw saw them both through

Big changes are required in our mentality. If Steve Clarke sees himself as the man to see those through then fair play to him but it's a huge job ahead. It will be interesting to see where we go from here. It wouldn't be my choice to keep him on but as others have said I don't trust the SFA to get the next call right anyway so where does that leave us

As for the naval gazing around the size of the league and players going to the Old Firm etc, just absolute nonsense that means nothing for the national team.

Your definition of 'absolute nonsense' is .....'absolute nonsense'. Our top flight is utter rubbish and hinders player development. Surely that's obvious ? All the mentality in the world won't right the wrongs that a 10/12 team league has imposed on the game..it has no redeeming features whatsoever. Or has it ?

 

 

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 minute ago, The Other Foot said:

It’s not the fans I’m bothered by. They have precisely zero impact on the performance of the team, good on them for having some fun.

 

It’s when the players insist on acting like wee boys, devoid of any semblance of wisdom, that I get pissed off. What was the fannying around with Bavarian dancing about? They just need to get their heads down, take these competitions a bit more seriously. 

I don’t think we were shite because John McGinn did a wee dance for about 20 seconds. We were shite because we seriously lack any creativity, and teams worked it out - Hungary in particular just sat off us knowing that there was no way we were going to create anything without them giving up loads of space.

I think we would’ve fared a bit better with some of the injured players in - particularly Hickey and Dykes - but ultimately we should’ve still fared better than we did. 

[forameus]

9 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

What does "all being equal" in relation to that rainy game mean? That night at Hampden, the conditions were equal(ly dreadful) for both sides.

All being equal as in the rain not happening.  It was the same for both sides, but for some reason we took to it, and Georgia completely shat it.  Not really sure what was going on with them that night.  Seemed more par when we went to Tbilisi and probably got lucky coming out with a point.

Unfortunately, every "diddy" nation of old has significantly improved in the past decade or so, and we've stood still.  They're a hell of a lot closer to us than they have been in the past, and I wouldn't be surprised if they improve further following this showing at a tournament. 

[MarkoRaj]

3 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

Your definition of 'absolute nonsense' is .....'absolute nonsense'. Our top flight is utter rubbish and hinders player development. Surely that's obvious ? All the mentality in the world won't right the wrongs that a 10/12 team league has imposed on the game..it has no redeeming features whatsoever. Or has it ?

 

 

 

I don't see the correlation at all. Our best players play in England. That won't change, in fact they're moving down younger and younger. That actually probably works in our favour because these clubs have multi-million pound academies and can develop players much better than we ever can.

I don't know what we could ever do to compete with that

[oneteaminglasgow]

3 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

 All the mentality in the world won't right the wrongs that a 10/12 team league has imposed on the game..it has no redeeming features whatsoever. 

Just FYI, Switzerland, Hungary, Croatia, Albania, Denmark, Slovenia, Austria, Slovakia and Georgia all also have top flights with either 10 or 12 teams in it. 

[HibeeJibee]

4 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

Our top flight is utter rubbish and hinders player development. Surely that's obvious ? All the mentality in the world won't right the wrongs that a 10/12 team league has imposed on the game..it has no redeeming features whatsoever.

 

1 hour ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Just FYI, Switzerland, Hungary, Croatia, Albania, Denmark, Slovenia, Austria, Slovakia and Georgia all also have top flights with either 10 or 12 teams in it. 

[Monkey Tennis]

13 hours ago, George Parr said:

But I think it would be helpful if our drunkard support could lose the "just happy to be here for the party" mentality and be even marginally more demanding and critical in real-time of a team that feels comfortable enough to skoosh through entire matches without creating a shot on target.

Even though I don't think the support enjoying themselves had any influence on how we played, I do have a sort of sympathy for the view above.

Personally, I got fed up of the media stuff banging on about 'the party'.  Fair enough if people had fun, but I honestly couldn't give shit about it.  The football was the point, and while I'm quite sure the football was the focus of the players, the bigger narrative sometimes portrayed it as a sideshow, and it's therefore even more frustrating when it lets us down.

McGinn doing the dancing on arrival was of course good natured, and a polite response to the welcome they'd been given.  Roy Keane did say, however, "he's got to be able to back that up".  Now, while this is typically strident Keane, he maybe does have a sliver of a point.  Any fannying around needs justifying, and we never managed it.  Silly stuff seems ever sillier and misplaced if the core business of the trip goes as badly wrong.

 

[No_Problemo]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Even though I don't think the support enjoying themselves had any influence on how we played, I do have a sort of sympathy for the view above.

Personally, I got fed up of the media stuff banging on about 'the party'.  Fair enough if people had fun, but I honestly couldn't give shit about it.  The football was the point, and while I'm quite sure the football was the focus of the players, the bigger narrative sometimes portrayed it as a sideshow, and it's therefore even more frustrating when it lets us down.

McGinn doing the dancing on arrival was of course good natured, and a polite response to the welcome they'd been given.  Roy Keane did say, however, "he's got to be able to back that up".  Now, while this is typically strident Keane, he maybe does have a sliver of a point.  Any fannying around needs justifying, and we never managed it.  Silly stuff seems ever sillier and misplaced if the core business of the trip goes as badly wrong.

 

I didn’t meet a single person who was just there for the party, with no interest in the football - so frankly the post you quoted is utter shite from start to finish. 

 

Edited June 27 by No_Problemo

[Binos]

14 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Even though I don't think the support enjoying themselves had any influence on how we played, I do have a sort of sympathy for the view above.

Personally, I got fed up of the media stuff banging on about 'the party'.  Fair enough if people had fun, but I honestly couldn't give shit about it.  The football was the point, and while I'm quite sure the football was the focus of the players, the bigger narrative sometimes portrayed it as a sideshow, and it's therefore even more frustrating when it lets us down.

McGinn doing the dancing on arrival was of course good natured, and a polite response to the welcome they'd been given.  Roy Keane did say, however, "he's got to be able to back that up".  Now, while this is typically strident Keane, he maybe does have a sliver of a point.  Any fannying around needs justifying, and we never managed it.  Silly stuff seems ever sillier and misplaced if the core business of the trip goes as badly wrong.

 

Roy keane talks endless shite

[velo army]

This is all a reaction to one post that said "at least the fans had a party in a square" or some such and folk have leapt on it. 

Scotland fans being there only for a big party is just a media narrative. I don't go to away games, but all my pals who do (and loads of other TA gonks I've met) have been every bit as raging about shitey away performances as me (more so as my trip to the pub or my living room wasn't as dear). 

It's a media narrative which, when done by English media, comes across as condescending and with Scottish media comes across as a coping mechanism for when we eventually f**k it up. 

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, 2426255 said:

At the time I probably would have said: kind of agree, bit odd - but that's modern football and they must be pumped.

On reflection, not something I'm really bothered about. If we'd gone on to draw nil-nil then folk would say: look at that desire to defend from the first whistle

You're right.

If it had been a precursor to a great performance and result, it would actually be getting hailed as evidence of something tremendous.  That outcome bias you like to highlight, is probably at play.

However, you're also right in saying it was a bit odd.  It really was.  That's not just hindsight.  I mentioned it as weird at the time and I'm sure that many of those highlighting it now, would have done the same.

It obviously wasn't a typical occasion, but it really does suggest that our approach to it was also wildly out of the ordinary.  It kind of looks like we were trying to hang on from the very outset.  We weren't celebrating a let-off or heroic rescue.  We were celebrating something spectacularly mundane, and it was our two best, and most exalted players who were doing it.

It's not incontrovertible proof of something being awry, but it's an indicator that our mindset was unsettled.

[Monkey Tennis]

8 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

I didn’t meet a single person who was just there for the party, with no interest in the football 

 I never suggested otherwise.

3 minutes ago, Binos said:

Roy keane talks endless shite

He does a bit.  He's got a persona he plays up to.   

He can make sense though.  The 'here for the party' element with the Irish support always irritated him, and personally, I see where he was coming from.  

 

[No_Problemo]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

 I never suggested otherwise.

He does a bit.  He's got a persona he plays up to.   

He can make sense though.  The 'here for the party' element with the Irish support always irritated him, and personally, I see where he was coming from.  

 

I mean you did say you had a bit of sympathy for it, when it deserves none but fair enough. 

On McGinn, Wright does also say that McGinn has already backed it up and Keane then went on to agree. 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, No_Problemo said:

I mean you did say you had a bit of sympathy for it, when it deserves none but fair enough. 

I maintain that it deserves some.

Our fans can be unquestioning.  Christ, you only need look in here to see the hysteria that accompanies a hint of success, and the denial that goes alongside failure.

Look at the prediction thread to see how the average prediction wildly exceeded what was delivered.  

The clamour to have fun, the gormless media portrayal, the bandwagon jumping of those with little year round interest - none of these are imaginary.

To identify such things as a cause of our miserable performance requires a leap I've no plans to attempt.  They do look kind of ridiculous and self serving when the entire bloody point collapses though.

[Binos]

22 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

 I never suggested otherwise.

He does a bit.  He's got a persona he plays up to.   

He can make sense though.  The 'here for the party' element with the Irish support always irritated him, and personally, I see where he was coming from.  

 

There's barely anything that doesn't irritate him

[No_Problemo]

55 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I maintain that it deserves some.

Our fans can be unquestioning.  Christ, you only need look in here to see the hysteria that accompanies a hint of success, and the denial that goes alongside failure.

Look at the prediction thread to see how the average prediction wildly exceeded what was delivered.  

The clamour to have fun, the gormless media portrayal, the bandwagon jumping of those with little year round interest - none of these are imaginary.

To identify such things as a cause of our miserable performance requires a leap I've no plans to attempt.  They do look kind of ridiculous and self serving when the entire bloody point collapses though.

The post absolutely doesn’t. 

I think you would find those things on every single club thread on this forum - those overly critical, those that get carried away and can’t see a single negative and then the few in the middle. 

I don’t think predicting we could get out that group is crazy though, personally I would never have predicted how insipid we were though. 

If I was being honest, I can’t be bothered with the media portrayal and the “best fans” thing as we aren’t children that require to be praised when we behave. 

Edited June 27 by No_Problemo

[Monkey Tennis]

17 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

If I was being honest, I can’t be bothered with the media portrayal and the “best fans” thing as we aren’t children that require to be praised when we behave. 

We agree then.

I think some do though.  In fact they revel in it, when it really doesn't matter. I think that's probably what I'm railing against.   

[Lex]

On 26/06/2024 at 22:15, HibeeJibee said:

Note too we ranked 22nd of 24 last time, ahead of only Turkey + FYR Macedonia.

Think it's also worth pointing out that the only games which we haven't lost in both these competitions is the second match. In both cases the team we were playing in the second match had won their first match and were clearly happy with a point in the game against us, as it got them through.

In the other four games the other team needed a win, and we lost them all of them.