What is the point of labour ?

[Wee-Bey]

 

[NotThePars]

8 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

The forensic human rights lawyer isn't even capable of making a contribution on a bill to legalise state sponsored murder beyond whipping his MPs to abstain. The argument being that they'll lose anyway and don't want to be seen as weak on national security, so they should ignore the principle that the state (Food Standards Agency included) shouldn't be allowed to murder people and police shouldn't be allowed to commit crimes in the course of infiltrating trade unions. Then the Tories obviously hammer them for that weakness because they abstained anyway, which apparently Starmer forensically failed to see coming.

What's the fucking point? He's comfortably both more spineless and incompetent than Miliband.

The lesson the Labour Right learned from Corbyn getting in off the back of Labour abstaining on the Welfare Bill is "continue abstaining just make it impossible for someone like Corbyn to get in again". Great party. The left wingers (and Paul Mason) that credulously bought what Starmer was selling are literally the dumbest people alive and shouldn't be allowed to control their own finances for their own good.

Edited October 16, 2020 by NotThePars

[sophia]

6 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

It does happen here, some years back in Inverness we had a drugs bust concerning a few citizens, by intelligence monitoring the drug squad ascertained that one of the women was in a rocky relationship with one of the male suspects, a young undercover officer suddenly appeared at various pubs and parties the young woman attended, soon he became intimate and a confidant for her and you know how it all turned out. 

You got divorced whilst you were in jail?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

8 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

The forensic human rights lawyer isn't even capable of making a contribution on a bill to legalise state sponsored murder beyond whipping his MPs to abstain. The argument being that they'll lose anyway and don't want to be seen as weak on national security, so they should ignore the principle that the state (Food Standards Agency included) shouldn't be allowed to murder people and police shouldn't be allowed to commit crimes in the course of infiltrating trade unions. Then the Tories obviously hammer them for that weakness because they abstained anyway, which apparently Starmer forensically failed to see coming.

What's the fucking point? He's comfortably both more spineless and incompetent than Miliband.

He's too focused on keeping this government On Notice, obviously. We're lucky to have him.

[NotThePars]

9 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

He's too focused on keeping this government On Notice, obviously. We're lucky to have him.

If they cause another 50000 deaths he'll have them on a Personal Improvement Plan and a written warning.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

 

[Detournement]

I said ages ago that Starmer couldn't be the next leader because he's a pig but I didn't count on the naivety of the membership. He was DPP for a reason and he's part of a club you don't ever leave. If anyone is actually shocked that a member of the Trilateral Commission is ok with illegal police tactics they button up the back. 

It'll be interesting to see how this goes down with the unions. Unison and GMB are a bad joke but surely this is too much for even them? 

 

[SandyCromarty]

31 minutes ago, sophia said:

You got divorced whilst you were in jail?

 

The only jail I experienced was a short stay in New Orleans City Jail back when the city was wide open and virtually lawless, btw the two nice arresting police officers seemed to take pleasure in beating the shite out of me, and all for looking for a taxi at 5am in the French Quarter.

[Detournement]

19 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

The only jail I experienced was a short stay in New Orleans City Jail back when the city was wide open and virtually lawless, btw the two nice arresting police officers seemed to take pleasure in beating the shite out of me, and all for looking for a taxi at 5am in the French Quarter.

A similar thing happened to Ray Davies of The Kinks. 

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, NewBornBairn said:

 

 

[dirty dingus]

4 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

The only jail I experienced was a short stay in New Orleans City Jail back when the city was wide open and virtually lawless, btw the two nice arresting police officers seemed to take pleasure in beating the shite out of me, and all for looking for a taxi at 5am in the French Quarter.

I got jailed in the USofA back in 1998, finished the fishing season in Alaska went round the bars in Anchorage and ended up in one with a lass from Largs pouring us huge whiskys, fell out the local strip bar at stupid o'clock and was picked up sleeping in a doorway, the polis were brand new and put me in the drunk tank where I had to pass a breathalyser in the morning to get out. Passed it on the 3rd go.

Edited October 16, 2020 by dirty dingus

[pandarilla]

Yesterday reminded me that Andy burnham is still kicking about. I thought he spoke well - and took a stand against the govt.

 

He'd have been a relatively centre left leader that would've been much more acceptable to the haters than corbyn was, and yet much more genuine a person than starmer.

 

Could've been a missed opportunity for Labour.

 

Edited... He's not someone i agree with on everything, as i was pretty much in agreement with every policy put forward by corbyn - but i think he could've been a genuine contender for prime minister, in a way that corbyn really wasn't (for the English public at large).

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, pandarilla said:

Yesterday reminded me that Andy burnham is still kicking about. I thought he spoke well - and took a stand against the govt.

 

He'd have been a relatively centre left leader that would've been much more acceptable to the haters than corbyn was, and yet much more genuine a person than starmer.

 

Could've been a missed opportunity for Labour.

 

Edited... He's not someone i agree with on everything, as i was pretty much in agreement with every policy put forward by corbyn - but i think he could've been a genuine contender for prime minister, in a way that corbyn really wasn't (for the English public at large).

Someone like Burnham would've been exactly the same as Miliband policy wise and would've only got in on the back of exhaustion with Conservative governance like Starmer might get to in 2024.

[pandarilla]

Someone like Burnham would've been exactly the same as Miliband policy wise and would've only got in on the back of exhaustion with Conservative governance like Starmer might get to in 2024.

He's got much more charisma than milliband. He'd have connected well with those who don't care much about politics.

[NotThePars]

5 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

6 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Someone like Burnham would've been exactly the same as Miliband policy wise and would've only got in on the back of exhaustion with Conservative governance like Starmer might get to in 2024.

He's got much more charisma than milliband. He'd have connected well with those who don't care much about politics.

I literally said policy wise. Even charisma wise, I kinda get it off how he tries to frame himself but it just smacks of the UK people that are obsessed with the West Wing and their fascination with David Miliband. Someone that generates this headline is going to make an irrevocable tit of himself sooner rather than later.

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by NotThePars

[pandarilla]

I literally said policy wise. Even charisma wise, I kinda get it off how he tries to frame himself but it just smacks of the UK people that are obsessed with the West Wing and their fascination with David Miliband. Someone that generates this headline is going to make an irrevocable tit of himself sooner rather than later.
 

I take it it's now the woke thing to hate the west wing?

I think there's a genuine difference between burnham and starmer, both in style and in policy. Milliband was definitely centre left in policy terms but goodbye have the style to make any inroads to middle England. I reckon burnham could do that - or at least he's the most likely to do it.

[NotThePars]

3 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I take it it's now the woke thing to hate the west wing?

I think there's a genuine difference between burnham and starmer, both in style and in policy. Milliband was definitely centre left in policy terms but goodbye have the style to make any inroads to middle England. I reckon burnham could do that - or at least he's the most likely to do it.
 

What's being woke got to do with anything?

It's not about whether there's a difference in style and or policy, it's whether they have the courage of their convictions to stand behind what they believe in and I don't think there's anything to suggest Andy Burnham would resist the goblins on the right of the party from dismantling any genuine progressive shift in the party.

Just because he ticks a few boxes that appeal to authentocrats doesn't mean he's going to be remotely different in policy from Miliband or even Starmer which is evidenced by his career of generally being amiable but a shitebag. I think the best example of that was him saying Labour made a huge mistake abstaining on the welfare bill that brought Corbyn in but he literally abstained on that vote. Spineless.

[GordonS]

15 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

Well, that's 254 pages into this thread now. Has anyone yet identified the point of Labour? I'm beginning to think there isn't one tbqh. 

My tuppence worth:

The point of UK Labour is changing as there's a great realignment happening among the electorate. Instead of being the party of the lowest paid workers and unemployed they'll have to be the party of liberals, progressives, cities, young people, graduates and ethnic minorities. The Tories are for nationalists, old people, rural areas, lower educated and traditionalists. Like in the US. Income has less to do with it than ever before and neither will be much good for people on the lowest incomes, though one will certainly be worse than the other.

The English working class no longer exists.

The point of Scottish Labour is mostly as a home for those on the left who feel we're inherently inferior to England. Like Johan Lamont, they think Scottish people are fundamentally a bit shite. They don't believe we could be a Finland, or even an Ireland, and that we couldn't survive without the English looking after us. This was only partially true until Brexit, but they now prefer a Scotland inside the UK and outside the EU over a Scotland outside the UK and inside the EU - even though it's a UK that in December chose to be led by a racist, corrupt, incompetent Honey Monster.

 

Just my take, if anyone thinks it's mince that's fine.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

I take it it's now the woke thing to hate the west wing?
 

The West Wing is great, I think it might be the best TV series ever... or at least until Mad Men. But some folk are obsessed with it, as Notthepars said. Like Toby in The Thick Of It fantasising about being Josh.

As the man himself said: "I'm a fan. I'm a sports fan, I'm a music fan and I'm a Star Trek fan. All of them. But here's what I don't do. Tell me if any of this sounds familiar: "Let's list our ten favorite episodes. Let's list our least favorite episodes. Let's list our favorite galaxies. Let's make a chart to see how often our favorite galaxies appear in our favorite episodes. What Romulan would you most like to see coupled with a Cardassian and why? Let's spend a weekend talking about Romulans falling in love with Cardassians and then let's do it again." That's not being a fan. That's having a fetish."

[Fullerene]

8 hours ago, GordonS said:

The West Wing is great, I think it might be the best TV series ever... or at least until Mad Men. But some folk are obsessed with it, as Notthepars said. Like Toby in The Thick Of It fantasising about being Josh.

As the man himself said: "I'm a fan. I'm a sports fan, I'm a music fan and I'm a Star Trek fan. All of them. But here's what I don't do. Tell me if any of this sounds familiar: "Let's list our ten favorite episodes. Let's list our least favorite episodes. Let's list our favorite galaxies. Let's make a chart to see how often our favorite galaxies appear in our favorite episodes. What Romulan would you most like to see coupled with a Cardassian and why? Let's spend a weekend talking about Romulans falling in love with Cardassians and then let's do it again." That's not being a fan. That's having a fetish."