Pet Jeden Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 13 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Do you mind if we don’t treat you extrapolating you’re guess of someone else’s reaction to an absurd hypothetical situation across a wide population as having any merit. Because it would be a challenge. It is a politics thread, Topcat. If the only opinions put forward need to be backed up with thoroughly researched and objectively analysed stats, then the thread would be about 1 page long, not 174. I don't think an independent Scotland is an absurd hypothesis and I don't think Tory or Tory coalition government for it is absurd either. Doubled up, it's certainly less than evens, but it's by no means "absurd". Also tbf, of the 2 nationalists who engaged with my point, Tabby agrees that he would not want independence in that scenario, and I think Bawatcher doesn't know his answer to the question. So, based on that scientific sample, I'm probably entitled to assert that "in a recent poll" - ignoring the Don't Knows -100% of the Scottish public would definitely want an independent Scotland to reunite with England if Holyrood returned a Tory government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 14 hours ago, MixuFixit said: What is a Scottish Nationalist in your view? Somebody who wants an independent Scotland - irrespective of who is in power at Westminster and at Holyrood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Do you think that's what motivates everyone who wants independence? Or rather do you think it matters if it isn't? All support is welcome. But, yes I do think it matters. Firstly,because it means their support is flaky and likely to melt away if a non Tory coalition wins an election or two at Westminster. And secondly, it means that in 10 or 20 years time, they could well be agitating for reuniting with England if they don't like the outcome of Holyrood elections. A vote for a Tory or Labour government is (normally) for 4-5 years. Independence should be for (at least) a lifetime 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 It would help if Labour had anyone capable of understanding the Scottish psyche. On the whole, we do like a moan but we don't really like change. When we do make a change we typically don't like to change again anytime soon. The SNP gained traction up here by telling a compelling story and then showing 7 years of competence before Scots gave them widespread support at all political levels. Labour need to start making a new story about who they are and why they are relevant to the working person. That story should be a positive one rather than endless anti-Tory and anti-SNP whining. What are they for rather than what they are against. Finally, they need one very crucial thing to go in their favour. They need the SNP to f**k up. Only then will serious change be sought. Until then, Scots like free prescriptions, free uni education, toll-free bridges and a decent economy and I can't see the SNP losing power in the forseeable future.Decent post Oaksoft, only point I disagree with is that for Labour to flourish again in Scotland they must tackle the constitutional question and stop burying their head in the sand. The latest reports are suggesting an independent Labour party in Scotland to prevent them being undermined by the UK party. Reason given is that Leonard won't be contradicted on his 'no indy ref 2' stance by Corbyn. If that is the position and future strategy of labour in Scotland then forget it. Not the separate Scottish party, rather their stance on independence.Until there is any change to their constitutional direction they have no chance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Also tbf, of the 2 nationalists who engaged with my point, Tabby agrees that he would not want independence in that scenarioWhat? That's not even remotely what I said.I think this is the third time I've replied to your posts and you've been completely whooshed by something incredibly simple. You have to be at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: All support is welcome. But, yes I do think it matters. Firstly,because it means their support is flaky and likely to melt away if a non Tory coalition wins an election or two at Westminster. And secondly, it means that in 10 or 20 years time, they could well be agitating for reuniting with England if they don't like the outcome of Holyrood elections. A vote for a Tory or Labour government is (normally) for 4-5 years. Independence should be for (at least) a lifetime Independence should be for (at least) eternity. (or possibly longer) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 56 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said: What? That's not even remotely what I said. I think this is the third time I've replied to your posts and you've been completely whooshed by something incredibly simple. You have to be at it. Calm doon BigFatTabby. You'll burst a blood vessel. Your exact words were "Forever? f*** no" Well, in politics nothing is literally forever, is it? Forever is as far as the mind can conceive. What's that - 30, 40 years? So, you would rather live in a Labour controlled UK for 30 years than a Tory controlled Scotland. Fair enough. But don't get angry with me for pointing that out. Just come out of the closet and admit you are really a Labour man who is SNP-curious 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Independence should be for (at least) eternity. (or possibly longer) Aye, very good. Now go and find me an example of a nation that was/is for eternity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 All support is welcome. But, yes I do think it matters. Firstly,because it means their support is flaky and likely to melt away if a non Tory coalition wins an election or two at Westminster. And secondly, it means that in 10 or 20 years time, they could well be agitating for reuniting with England if they don't like the outcome of Holyrood elections. A vote for a Tory or Labour government is (normally) for 4-5 years. Independence should be for (at least) a lifetimeAway and don't talk shite. Absolutely no c**t will be agitating to join England ever. Ireland was a 3rd world country on its arse and never wanted to go back. I don't care what colour a Scottish government will be. At least we'll have voted for them EVERY time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Away and don't talk shite. Absolutely no c**t will be agitating to join England ever. Ireland was a 3rd world country on its arse and never wanted to go back. I don't care what colour a Scottish government will be. At least we'll have voted for them EVERY time. Aye, this pish about Scotland begging to come back is beyond tedious 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Pet Jeden said: Yes, I am at it. Nobody could possibly find it this difficult to parse simple statements. Phew, that's a relief. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 56 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: Away and don't talk shite. Absolutely no c**t will be agitating to join England ever. Ireland was a 3rd world country on its arse and never wanted to go back. I don't care what colour a Scottish government will be. At least we'll have voted for them EVERY time. Well, I agree with your “no going back” attitude. But BigFattyTabDave has already said that, given the right circumstances, he would do a U turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 36 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said: Phew, that's a relief. That did make me laugh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) Why react to an independent Scotland governed by Tories by trying to go back to England when we can just kill all the Tories and people who voted for them? Although the SRA will have been dormant post-separation, it'll always be ready to serve its purpose. Edited January 5, 2020 by Miguel Sanchez 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Well if Big Dave would do a U-turn them I'm sure that means an entire nation will also do the same ....totally. Well, I agree with your “no going back” attitude. But BigFattyTabDave has already said that, given the right circumstances, he would do a U turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 tbf that looks to me like it could be a bit of a game-changer. If they regain their spine and lose that branch-office stigma, Scottish Labour will probably reclaim a good 10% from SNPDespite what the snp claim if scottish labour provided a good alternative to them then they would lose quite a few voters.There was initially a massive protest vote against Scottish labour and I dont think all of them are 100% snp backers.It would take a bit of convincing and the snp to fall apart a bit but it's possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I’ve never heard Phillips say anything of any substance, it’s all generalisations which are designed to be as bland as possible. By uttering such vacuous drivel she makes it difficult for people to take issue with her; it’s hard to disagree with nothingness. She will appeal to people whose political attention span is about five minutes so long as it doesn’t interfere with Strictly Come Baking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I’ve never heard Phillips say anything of any substance, it’s all generalisations which are designed to be as bland as possible. By uttering such vacuous drivel she makes it difficult for people to take issue with her; it’s hard to disagree with nothingness. She will appeal to people whose political attention span is about five minutes so long as it doesn’t interfere with Strictly Come Baking. You mean the lion share of the electorate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Donathan said: You mean the lion share of the electorate? That may be a fair assessment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Having watched Emily Thornberry on Sophy Ridge this morning - straight after she had interviewed Raab, who just waffled without answering a single question. Thornberry was not afraid to speak her mind on the assassination of Suleimani and really came across like a breath of fresh air. I've long felt that Starmer should be the next leader, but I certainly wouldn't mind if Thornberry got the job. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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