What is the point of labour ?

[Brother Blades]

Where’s this widest possible debate even coming from? MPs from all parties get to debate & vote on the motion & any amendments submitted. It’s a load of absolute nonsense. The whole stitch up was so as not to display (again), the current splits in the Labour Party. 

Hoyle has to go, all this bullshit about safety concerns is just that, bullshit! 

Starmer being a sleekit coward comes as no shock to me, the narrative by the MSM has moved from splits in Labour to the speaker, so in that regard it’s worked..... for now. 

[Wee Bully]

57 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said:

Flynn is going down a dangerous road. 

This is your wildest take yet. Exactly what  “dangerous road”?

Edited February 22 by Wee Bully

[KirkieRR]

BBC reporting of this was shocking, I thought.

[dirty dingus]

10 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

BBC reporting of this was shocking, I thought.

They're really trying to push the MP's were all going to get killed by mad muslims if they didn't support an all out ceasfire rather than we have all backed genocidal Netanyahu and let the (useful for getting shot of Corbyn)Jewish lobby wag the dog.

[Highlandmagar]

16 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

This is your wildest take yet. Exactly what  “dangerous road”?

I think there is a danger that this could end up with egg on his face 

Penny Mordaunt was playing pure politics earlier with her praising Hoyle etc. 

At the end of the day Tories ( except for their usual nutters) and Labour will close ranks and save him. Hoyle will limp on to the GE, weakened, which will serve both Tory and Labour politically.

I wholeheartedly agree that what happened last night was shameful. 

Labour completely hijacked the SNP opposition day.

While I don't think it's a trap for Flynn to go down this road, it could easily become one.

The big Unionist parties will be in a position , with a very weak Speaker to completely sideline SNP more than ever.

Just my take on things.

I will vote SNP at the next election, and Flynn, is my MP, but I think he could play this more cleverly and take it to the Scottish public in a big way to expose even more the utterly corrupt Westminster. 

 

[Wee Bully]

1 hour ago, Highlandmagar said:

The big Unionist parties will be in a position , with a very weak Speaker to completely sideline SNP more than ever.

 

I agree with almost all you’ve said, other than Flynn getting egg on his face. I can’t see that.

From a purely political standpoint, the SNP getting sidelined even more is probably great for the SNP in making soft No’s consider their position - “look, they just don’t care about Scotland”. 

[Highlandmagar]

Just now, Wee Bully said:

I agree with almost all you’ve said, other than Flynn getting egg on his face. I can’t see that.

From a purely political standpoint, the SNP getting sidelined even more is probably great for the SNP in making soft No’s consider their position - “look, they just don’t care about Scotland”. 

I totally agree with the last line.

[Binos]

2 hours ago, KirkieRR said:

BBC reporting of this was shocking, I thought.

All bbc reporting is shocking and incredibly biased 

Other than the newsnight team

[doulikefish]

Yesterday Hoyle said he accepted labours motion because it was outdated procedures today it's terrorists attacking mps talk about coming up with some nonsense overnight 

[GAD]

2 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Yesterday Hoyle said he accepted labours motion because it was outdated procedures today it's terrorists attacking mps talk about coming up with some nonsense overnight 

Even this is backfiring as it gives the Tories an excellent attack line about Labour bending to terrorists. 

[Dunning1874]

3 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

Hoyle now saying he did what he did to protect MPs from viable threats. Risible nonsense. 

Even if there were viable threats were they only made to Labour MPs as that is the only group his actions sought to "protect". Also it seems we now have a massive elephant in the room here, a bogey man that appears to be getting blamed for bringing chaos to UK politics.  It's as pathetic as it is transparent and talk like this is merely stoking the flames. Do they honestly think UK Muslims are the only people appalled by what's happening in Gaza ???

There's nothing even remotely subtle about the inherent racism in their way of thinking, which comes from two equally offensive places.

The first as you correctly identify, is the idea of Muslims engaging in peaceful protest as some sort of inherently dangerous boogeyman who are on the cusp of turning into a violent mob at any point, with the incessant othering of British Muslims being a further aspect of this. For the same politicians who claim their views on Israel are partly motivated by defending people against religious bigotry, it's a hell of a look to demonise a religious minority and suggest there's an inherent contradiction between their religious beliefs and a nebulous set of British Values, as if they are incompatible and one must unavoidably take precedence over the other with the implication that simply being a member of that group automatically qualifies as disloyalty to the state. Hence all protest against the government's stance on Israel is also framed as if only Muslims object to the UK's active participation in this slaughter, rather than the reality that support for an immediate ceasefire is comfortably the majority view of the British public.

The second is the fundamental point which has been apparent for several years but never so obvious as now, which is that to the majority of MPs in this country non-white and especially Muslim lives either count for less or don't matter at all. Looking at Labour specifically, as shown by examples such as their failure to act on the Forde Report and the treatment of Apsana Begum in recent years, they've become even more virulently racist with a big emphasis on Islamophobia under Starmer's leadership.

Just look how transparent this is with the obviously fabricated bullshit about their safety in the last 24 hours, after happily briefing client journalists that they had blackmailed Hoyle then realising they had to row it back after the backlash. Suddenly debating these issues at all is a threat to them, we need to dial things back before People Like Us Who Actually Matter get hurt.

This completely ignores the fact that the reason we're talking about this in the first place is that about 100,000 people already have been hurt, with 30 thousand of them dead and the death toll climbing by hundreds every single day, with the British government actively complicit in that death toll. However, the vast majority of those dead aren't white and/or are Muslim, so the fact they're actually dying is completely irrelevant next to fictional threats to white politicians dreamed up by lying scumbags like Paul Sweeney: in any credible political party he'd be expelled for yesterday's lies.

Threats of violence against politicians are absolutely a serious issue, which is another reason why manufacturing this transparent nonsense about Labour's political game playing really being due to threats to their safety is offensive. If we seriously want to engage with this we could look at where the vast majority of threats and actual harm to MPs have come from in the last 10 years, but that might be awkward to acknowledge for the commentariat with Daily Mail, Sun and Telegraph columns.

The best confluence of these two things comes from Angela Rayner. At a Labour Party event in January she was met with protests from some of the audience over Labour's refusal to back a ceasefire, one of the protestors being a Palestinian she'd previously met in 2019, posing for photos and agreeing on support for a Palestinian state when it was politically expedient for her to show off pro-Palestinian credentials for an electorate. His mother, brother, pregnant sister in law and nieces in Gaza had all been killed by Israeli bombing since October. Despite having made no attempt to access the stage with absolutely no question of violent intent on his part or any of the other protestors at all, Rayner had the brass neck to give an interview a few days later talking about how scared she was for her own safety.

She is entitled to claim a threat to her own safety because a Palestinian whose family were killed due to military action she explicitly supported peacefully protested about that support in her presence; Palestinians are not entitled to be concerned about their own safety even when our political establishment is aiding and abetting the mass murder of their families. The deaths of those five Palestinians and the other 30,000 like them do not register in our media as newsworthy or something for Angela Rayner to concern herself with, but it is newsworthy for Sky and several newspapers to broadcast the perceived threat to Angela Rayner which existed entirely as a figment of the imagination, because she had to suffer a Palestinian Muslim peacefully protesting in her presence and in the minds of the Labour Party and the British media, a Palestinian Muslim man simply existing is indivisible from a threat of violence.

Back in the real world, looking at consequences people actually face as a result of political rhetoric, there has been a 335% increase in hate crimes against Muslims in the UK since October.

[Guest]

I'm in a way glad this has happened. Labour were coming across far too reasonably recently

[scottsdad]

10 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

John Hughes until the end of the season.

I have said it before and I will say it again.

Yogi would do a better job than any mainstream politician today. Any single one.

[KirkieRR]

The Labour refrain (echoed by the BBC, Graun and many other media) that the SNP put forward this motion 'to embarrass Labour - just playing politics' drives me nuts.

1 It's not all about Labour. This might be about Israel and Palestine.

2 Labour are quite capable of embarrassing themselves. They don't need anyone else to do it for them

 

[SandyCromarty]

8 hours ago, Leith Green said:

Starmers interview on the BBC 10 mins ago confirms he spoke to Hoyle and "urged" him to have the widest possible debate.

Clearly its impossible to state exactly what was said, and in what manner but there is now no question that Hoyle made his decision after Starmer spoke to him.

Hoyle has - today - stated that he made a mistake in allowing it.

Its pretty cut and dried, the speaker needs to go as his credibility is in tatters.

It's of little validity saying that he made a mistake and now knowing that Starmer used him, he may now lose his job now or in the future due to the mistrust that has settled on his position.

Meanwhile Slimey Starmer will be giving it the big Sauchiehall Street Shuffle.

[sophia]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

I have said it before and I will say it again.

Yogi would do a better job than any mainstream politician today. Any single one.

Is that not the rejoinder of the ill thinking pub bore? 

[MazzyStar]

21 minutes ago, sophia said:

ill thinking pub bore 

This is how you come across in most of your posts. 

[Freedom Farter]

John McDonnell intimated yesterday that the allegations about Labour threatening the Speaker were true. Today, "senior Labour figures" revealed to the BBC what form those threats took. The Speaker would have needed Labour votes to be re-elected as Speaker after the election and he was told he would not receive those votes unless he called Labour's amendment yesterday.

Starmer has long since behaved this way within the Labour party, breaking established democratic norms. To see him continue that approach externally isn't surprising.

[Freedom Farter]

Mentioning John McDonnell, he seems to have noticed what I've been complaining about in this thread. That The Times are backing Labour, that they seem to have Starmer's ear and that they're doing their best to move him further rightwards.

This has precedent, of course. Murdoch and Blair combined forces previously. The deal was that Blair got Murdoch's huge media backing in exchange for only pursuing policies tolerable to Murdoch. 

Edited February 23 by Freedom Farter

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Farage is probably too far to the left for Starmer to work with him.