What is the point of labour ?

[eez-eh]

Wild that so many people here are outraged at the prospect of the government not giving millionaire pensioners £11.5k a year.

[scottsdad]

On 01/08/2024 at 16:27, Pocketman said:

for all that is good and holy, can we please change the name of this thread. 

It's back to normal now, thankfully. 

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

9 hours ago, eez-eh said:

Wild that so many people here are outraged at the prospect of the government not giving millionaire pensioners £11.5k a year.

Champagne socialists 

[MazzyStar]

Mods deleting posts again. 

[Granny Danger]

Why does the SNP led Scottish Parliament take such flak whilst the bonfire that is the Labour led Welsh Senedd fly under the radar?

[Billy Jean King]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Why does the SNP led Scottish Parliament take such flak whilst the bonfire that is the Labour led Welsh Senedd fly under the radar?

Possibly (and most obviously) because what happens in the Welsh equivalent has zero impact on the lives of us up here ???

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Billy Jean King said:

Possibly (and most obviously) because what happens in the Welsh equivalent has zero impact on the lives of us up here ???

Yeah but the MSM seems to give them a pass and at the election their ‘work’ never came under any scrutiny when considering the effectiveness of the Labour Party.

[SlipperyP]

On 05/08/2024 at 13:17, SandyCromarty said:

Norway, Denmark Sweden and Germany eg do not have operational nuclear submarines but are aligned with the US, if a German economy, far bigger than ours, does not have a Trident or similar sub missile system why do we??????

You're not a history buff are you?

[SandyCromarty]

46 minutes ago, SlipperyP said:

You're not a history buff are you?

I don't fully know what you are referring to here, if it is to do with Germany being subjected to the dismantling of the navy and merchant marine as per the Potsdam Conference plus the country being divided between USA, UK France and Russia then I know where you're coming from, but restrictions, as far as the western powers were concerned slowly waned into the 1960's and West Germany was by now considered. a Western ally in the midst of the Cold War.

Germany can build nuclear powered submarines if they so wished but they don't want to do so for political reasons. 

However in 1964 the West German government commissioned and built the Otto Hahn, (named after the German physicist), a nuclear powered merchant vessel which went into service.

So Germany all along has had nuclear capability but chose not to build nuclear powered submarines but instead used the money to build their strong economy.

[SandyCromarty]

4 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Why does the SNP led Scottish Parliament take such flak whilst the bonfire that is the Labour led Welsh Senedd fly under the radar?

From day one the tories are against Devolution and see the SNP as dismantlers of their precious united kingdom.

Plaid Cymru haven't made the impact on Wales that the SNP and the Scottish Independence movement have done in Scotland.

Wales unfortunately share the same judiciary system with england and the biggest changes that the Devolved Welsh Parliament have done is by passing Laws pertaining to Wales alone.

[SlipperyP]

18 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

I don't fully know what you are referring to here, if it is to do with Germany being subjected to the dismantling of the navy and merchant marine as per the Potsdam Conference plus the country being divided between USA, UK France and Russia then I know where you're coming from, but restrictions, as far as the western powers were concerned slowly waned into the 1960's and West Germany was by now considered. a Western ally in the midst of the Cold War.

Germany can build nuclear powered submarines if they so wished but they don't want to do so for political reasons. 

However in 1964 the West German government commissioned and built the Otto Hahn, (named after the German physicist), a nuclear powered merchant vessel which went into service.

So Germany all along has had nuclear capability but chose not to build nuclear powered submarines but instead used the money to build their strong economy.

There is only one country to fear in the world. Not Russia, not China, not North Korea.  Yes you guessed it, GERMANY!

They went to war not once but twice. Who against?  The f**kING world!

You should check it out, quite an interesting period of the last century. 

[Granny Danger]

Just now, SlipperyP said:

There is only one country to fear in the world. Not Russia, not China, not North Korea.  Yes you guessed it, GERMANY!

They went to war not once but twice. Who against?  The f**kING world!

You should check it out, quite an interesting period of the last century. 

I take it this is a whoosh?

[SandyCromarty]

1 hour ago, SlipperyP said:

There is only one country to fear in the world. Not Russia, not China, not North Korea.  Yes you guessed it, GERMANY!

They went to war not once but twice. Who against?  The f**kING world!

You should check it out, quite an interesting period of the last century. 

Ok I'll keep an eye on Germany.

[Fullerene]

19 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Ok I'll keep an eye on Germany.

You should also keep an eye on Japan.  They had ambitions to create a massive empire in the Far East. 

Sort of like the British Empire but without the cricket or the cucumber sandwiches.

[Mark Connolly]

43 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

You should also keep an eye on Japan.  They had ambitions to create a massive empire in the Far East. 

Sort of like the British Empire but without the cricket or the cucumber sandwiches.

Cricket and cucumber sandwiches or sumo and sushi?

Tricky choice

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, Fullerene said:

You should also keep an eye on Japan.  They had ambitions to create a massive empire in the Far East. 

Sort of like the British Empire but without the cricket or the cucumber sandwiches.

And Tiffin.

[Mr Waldo]

On 05/08/2024 at 07:17, SandyCromarty said:

The warheads are serviced in Berkshire so why not the guidance systems? and there is no money saved in the USA Military servicing the guidance systems as they backcharge the transport and servicing in Virginia to the UK Government.

Of course there would be massive savings if we scrapped Trident and all of the Infrastructure Inc the Subs.

At present the UK system is absolutely aligned with American foreign and military policy, the USA relies heavily on Faslane for servicing and strategic positioning in Western Europe so they could maintain the nuclear stability without the UKs involvement, at the end of the day what threat does our small sub fleet present compared to the massive US sub fleet throughout western European waters.

 

Norway, Denmark Sweden and Germany eg do not have operational nuclear submarines but are aligned with the US, if a German economy, far bigger than ours, does not have a Trident or similar sub missile system why do we??????

It is empirical posturing that we cannot afford, the money would be far better spent on the NHS.

 

It is not just the guidance system, it is the whole missile. Why duplicate two production lines and double the cost?

Yes massive savings in minus the redundancy of thousands, of highly skilled well paid jobs disappearing to the US and Australia, from the North of England and beyond, combined with the end of a complete industry. The breach of contracts will be billions. We have started building 3 of 4 new submarines. Non financially, you've broken trust with dozens of friendly countries.

Faslane does not service US submarines. Don't tell the Russians but every UK submarine, bar one, is currently in port because of a lack or UK facilities. Our 'small fleet' is four submarines (to guarantee one at sea), the 'massive US fleet' is fourteen (to guarantee four ar sea), so..

Germany do not own weapons of mass destruction for obvious historical reasons but they are buying F35 planes from the US specifically to carry US nuclear weapons.

OK. The crux. 'Whatever we save from Trident, we spend on the NHS'.  Typical political speak. Trident comes out of the UK defence budget, so what you are saying 'cut the defence budget'. Now I know the UK military is not popular on here but for a UK government to do that, when the world is the way it is, they will rightly, out of power for at least two decades.

 

[coprolite]

20 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Why does the SNP led Scottish Parliament take such flak whilst the bonfire that is the Labour led Welsh Senedd fly under the radar?

You've mixed that metaphor horribly. 

It's a question of perspective. 

The Senned gets plenty of flak here in Wales, whereas the Scottish Parliament is barely mentioned. 

Where i work in England, they're vaguely aware of Scotland and Wales from the rugby or football but aren't really arsed about the devolved government of either. 

[SandyCromarty]

7 hours ago, Mr Waldo said:

It is not just the guidance system, it is the whole missile. Why duplicate two production lines and double the cost?

Yes massive savings in minus the redundancy of thousands, of highly skilled well paid jobs disappearing to the US and Australia, from the North of England and beyond, combined with the end of a complete industry. The breach of contracts will be billions. We have started building 3 of 4 new submarines. Non financially, you've broken trust with dozens of friendly countries.

Faslane does not service US submarines. Don't tell the Russians but every UK submarine, bar one, is currently in port because of a lack or UK facilities. Our 'small fleet' is four submarines (to guarantee one at sea), the 'massive US fleet' is fourteen (to guarantee four ar sea), so..

Germany do not own weapons of mass destruction for obvious historical reasons but they are buying F35 planes from the US specifically to carry US nuclear weapons.

OK. The crux. 'Whatever we save from Trident, we spend on the NHS'.  Typical political speak. Trident comes out of the UK defence budget, so what you are saying 'cut the defence budget'. Now I know the UK military is not popular on here but for a UK government to do that, when the world is the way it is, they will rightly, out of power for at least two decades.

 

The UK is not, miltarily, a 'superpower and never will be, to spend the ridiculous amount of money on nuclear weaponry is wasteful and that money could be used on the NHS.

Talk of thousands losing jobs is a well worn phrase used to justify Tridents ongoing works.

Thousands lost their jobs on the Clyde when shipbuilding moved to Jaan and Korea, many of those men were absorbed elsewhere in Industry where I worked alongside many of them onshore and offshore Aberdeen.

The UK is a small country on the world stage and maintaining a military nuclear budget is echoes of a long gone past and as I said it is empirical posturing.

And to repeat myself we are a USA puppet state militarily. We need to cut that tie and the demands placed upon us.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

You've mixed that metaphor horribly. 

It's a question of perspective. 

The Senned gets plenty of flak here in Wales, whereas the Scottish Parliament is barely mentioned. 

Where i work in England, they're vaguely aware of Scotland and Wales from the rugby or football but aren't really arsed about the devolved government of either. 

f**king grammar nazi.

My point was during the GE there was focus on Holyrood as an argument that the SNP was not fit to govern therefore didn’t deserve people’s votes.  At the same time there was little reference to the fact that the Labour Party had been governing Wales and hadn’t done any better job.

Do you live in Wales and work in England?