Southport stabbings

[hk blues]

2 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

8 down votes for asking if folk have seen the pre-head kick footage?!?!  

So have you or haven’t you? Are people not interested in context?  

I didn't down vote it but perhaps those who did feel that the police involved should be held to a higher standard than the criminals they deal with.  Hard to disagree even taking into account the circumstances shown in the videos. 

[Allroy for Prez]

7 minutes ago, hk blues said:

I didn't down vote it but perhaps those who did feel that the police involved should be held to a higher standard than the criminals they deal with.  Hard to disagree even taking into account the circumstances shown in the videos. 

Despite not going in heavy handed to make an arrest the police were set upon in the most violent and aggressive manner possible sustaining broken noses and jaws in the process. At least one of the police was a female which made no difference to the thugs attacking her. One was tased to neutralise him and he took a kick and a stamp to the head in the immediate aftermath in what was clearly a heat of the moment retaliation to what they’d just been subjected to.

He got off lightly in my opinion. 

Edited July 31 by Allroy for Prez

[hk blues]

1 minute ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Despite not going in heavy handed to make an arrest the police were set upon in the most violent and aggressive manner possible sustaining broken noses and jaws in the process. At least one of the police was a female which made no difference to the thugs attacking her. One was tased to neutralise him and he took a kick and a stamp to the head in the immediate aftermath. He got off lightly in my opinion. 

Aye. But, when we accept that the polis have justification for giving as good as they got (in full view of the public) when the bad guys were already out of the game it's a slippery slope. 

[Freedom Farter]

I haven't read the whole thread so if someone has already made a point similar to this, apologies.

For young men committing crimes like this, maybe under 25 to put an arbitrary age number on it, and certainly for young men living with their parents, there needs to at least be a discussion about what the people close to the criminal were doing. There are parents who are harbouring a son they know is a threat to society but they do nothing about it because he's their son. I don't know if that was the case here but it certainly is the case often. Sometimes I'd say that conspiracy of inaction extends beyond just the parents. Whatever the immediate social circle of these dangerous young men is, we need to create a culture where folk who know this man is a potential threat come forward with that information before the criminal violence happens. What form that takes, I don't know. I obviously don't mean turn up at a police station and just say at the front desk "my son is going to murder a load of children" like its Minority Report. But there should be some mechanism where folk can notify the state of a potential threat, social work or whatever, so intervention happens. Then as a wider culture, we need to champion folk for doing that, for coming forward with their fears about a threat posed by a family member.

[oneteaminglasgow]

35 minutes ago, 101 said:

There was a machete fight in Southend last night however, does seem to be something bubbling away, not sure how you stop it.

From reading this thread, it seems that the best course of action is to just call them arseholes and not think at all about any wider contributory factors that may be in play. 

[eez-eh]

4 hours ago, Ned Nederlander said:

Twitter is a fucking binfire

That’s all that needs said 100% of the time.

[Ya Bezzer!]

32 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

8 down votes for asking if folk have seen the pre-head kick footage?!?!  

So have you or haven’t you? Are people not interested in context?  

The pre head kick footage makes no difference.

The police are entitled to defend themselves and subdue attackers, there are not allowed to kick people in the head and then stamp on their head in retaliation when the attacker is subdued and is no threat.

Suggesting so just makes you look like the violent thug you are, or more likely, aspire to.

[btb]

17 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

I haven't read the whole thread so if someone has already made a point similar to this, apologies.

For young men committing crimes like this, maybe under 25 to put an arbitrary age number on it, and certainly for young men living with their parents, there needs to at least be a discussion about what the people close to the criminal were doing. There are parents who are harbouring a son they know is a threat to society but they do nothing about it because he's their son. I don't know if that was the case here but it certainly is the case often. Sometimes I'd say that conspiracy of inaction extends beyond just the parents. Whatever the immediate social circle of these dangerous young men is, we need to create a culture where folk who know this man is a potential threat come forward with that information before the criminal violence happens. What form that takes, I don't know. I obviously don't mean turn up at a police station and just say at the front desk "my son is going to murder a load of children" like its Minority Report. But there should be some mechanism where folk can notify the state of a potential threat, social work or whatever, so intervention happens. Then as a wider culture, we need to champion folk for doing that, for coming forward with their fears about a threat posed by a family member.

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

49 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

8 down votes for asking if folk have seen the pre-head kick footage?!?!  

So have you or haven’t you? Are people not interested in context?  

Go on then. Explain the context which justifies a suspect already restrained on the ground being kicked in the head.

[Allroy for Prez]

Just now, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Go on then. Explain the context which justifies a suspect already restrained on the ground being kicked in the head.

I just did. 

[Wee Bully]

Just now, Allroy for Prez said:

I just did. 

The police are not there to “retaliate” or take justice into their own hands. This is not a police state and we should hold them to a higher standard. 

[Trackdaybob]

[Allroy for Prez]

3 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Laughing but also, curiously, giving out down marks.

Poor wee baby boy.

You’re a child. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

Just now, Allroy for Prez said:

You’re a child. 

Imagine being so juvenile to down mark someone cos they called you out.

That's undeniably toys out the pram behaviour.

But, hey, just keep psychologically projecting mate.

[Granny Danger]

Threads like this are handy for updating the ‘ignore’ list.

[Allroy for Prez]

1 minute ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Imagine being so juvenile to down mark someone cos they called you out.

That's undeniably toys out the pram behaviour.

But, hey, just keep psychologically projecting mate.

You resorted to insults to try and win a debate. I expected a higher standard of debate. Hey ho, 

[ICTChris]

The police are allowed to kick you in the head, if it's reasonable force for the situation.  I don't think there are any limits to what they are allowed to do, it depends on the situation.  I mean the police are allowed to shoot people dead, depending on the situation.

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

4 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

You resorted to insults to try and win a debate. I expected a higher standard of debate. Hey ho, 

So you condone potentially fatal violence but have enormously thin skin in a internet debate?

Sounds about right.

You said "he got off lightly" which suggests an already unacceptable level of violence wasn't enough in your view.

Therefore I think I'm justified in calling you an aspiring thug.

If you want to backtrack on your position, I'll glady apologise.

[dundeefc1783]

22 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Go on then. Explain the context which justifies a suspect already restrained on the ground being kicked in the head.

I agree re police being accountable and must be reasonable force etc. 

However looking at this video there is a bit grey area here for me. There is a slightly longer video floating about which shows a few seconds more and shows the kick to the head. The length of time from the cop being dragged to the floor and the kick is approximately 4 seconds. This is after receiving about 8-10 blows including a few to the back of the head in the proceeding 15 seconds or so. 

That is an extremely frantic situation and probably very loud. Is it out with the realms of possiblity that the cop didn't even realise that he had been tasered at that point. He may have been on the floor but he wasn't restrained. 

I do think that he will face prosecution but there are mitigating factors imo.

[Peil]

55 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

The pre head kick footage makes no difference.

The police are entitled to defend themselves and subdue attackers, there are not allowed to kick people in the head and then stamp on their head in retaliation when the attacker is subdued and is no threat.

Suggesting so just makes you look like the violent thug you are, or more likely, aspire to.

If it was a scrap in the street and I was filmed stamping someones head on the floor, I'd be looking at assault/GBH down there, regardless of what went on before.