🔵🟡Scotland v Poland 🔴⚪

[No_Problemo]

31 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

^^^ what he said.

McGinn was excellent and I thought Christie was arguably our poorest starter on the night in terms of his general performance level. I accept didn't make any game changing mistakes in the way McGinn, Hanley, Ralston and McLean did.

Robertson was ok last night without being especially good.

Really? I was in the stadium, parallel with the penalty area he was attacking when he came on and I thought he was an absolute mile off it. Never where he should have been, beaten every time the ball went near him and noticeably a yard or more short of pace when chasing anything. The latter isn't a surprise of course, we know it before he goes on, but he doesn't give us anything like the ability to harass opposing defenders that Adams and Dykes do.

 

I'm inevitably biased to an extent about Dykes but I'm surprised if people think Shankland offered anything positive last night when he came on. I'm perfectly capable of giving praise to both Adams and Shankland when they deserve it. I thought Shankland had a good game in Holland for instance and given his form 2nd half of last season there was a good argument for giving him more game time for Scotland. He's miles away from that level right now though. I think a lot of our fans are very guilty of over-rating Adams and his contributions lately. I like him but it's over two years since he had a decent game for Scotland.

 

This is a pretty wild take for me. There's not much football about Grant Hanley, you're right. The idea that Porteous is any better at it though is fanciful. Hanley's your basic stopper who had a useful turn of pace (not sure he still has it). McKenna is the one who has a wee bit of football about him though he's slow. He's currently in form and playing regularly though so he simply has to start.

Interesting to see if Clarke largely sends out the same again on Sunday despite the mistakes or makes changes.

I’m sorry, you don’t think Porteous is a better football player than Hanley?

That’s one of the wildest shouts I’ve ever seen on here! He struggles to move in any direction with the ball and pass further than three yards sideways. 

McKenna is absolutely not slow either. 

[The Moonster]

Porto is a heidcase and more than capable of doing what Hanley done last night. The difference is Porteous is 25 and has time to learn and correct such behaviour. Hanley is a diddy who has continually made diddy mistakes like last night and won't ever change, given he is now 32. Porteous, Souttar and Hendry all better options than Hanley for me. 

[throbber]

Loved Ralstons hands on head reaction even before the ref blew for the penalty against Hanley.

[Ludo*1]

We live in a world where Jack Hendry is probably the best CH we have.

I mean, as a former Dee, I obviously like him, but it's clear that defensively we are always going to have issues for the forseeable.

[ManBearPig]

2 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

Again, it was a positive. Would you rather we didn’t manage to score two goals and we just lost 0-3?

Or would you just rather we were a better side (like early 2023 Scotland…or maybe Croatia) who don’t go 0-2 down at home and have to come back from that. Sadly, that’s not who Scotland are at the moment.

"If you're not happy about losing 3-2; at home, to a poor Poland side, you must have wanted to lose 3-0". What kind of porridge brained nonsense is this?

[Jaggy McJagface]

53 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

The worst part about last night for me isn't the result,  it's the proof that our approach in the summer was so completely unnecessary.

If we'd put in 3 games like that in Germany Clarke would be facing minimal dissent, regardless of result.   

 

I am worried the end result last night will make Clarke think he’s vindicated in the ultra conservative approach of playing a back 3 even when Tierney isn’t fit.
 

We may as well go baws oot and try and out score opponents as we probably concede from an individual mistake regardless of how defensively we were to set up.

[Unleash The Nade]

2 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

Again, it was a positive. Would you rather we didn’t manage to score two goals and we just lost 0-3?

Or would you just rather we were a better side (like early 2023 Scotland…or maybe Croatia) who don’t go 0-2 down at home and have to come back from that. Sadly, that’s not who Scotland are at the moment.

Your attitude is being “ glorious in failure “, but at the end of the day it’s still failure .

Also can’t  understand your fixation with Croatia, which again shows lack of ambition  as there are lots of teams higher ranked than them , so surely if you wanted Scotland to be “ like “ another team , surely you’d pick someone else . 
 

[Crùbag]

12 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

I get that. You are Steve Clarke. Pick the replacements. Ralston is clearly not up to it. McLean can hit a penalty and will always have that Norway moment, but he shouldn’t be starter. Hanley isn’t even assured of a game at Norwich. Pick the replacements?

The Germany manager at the Euros said we have 4 or 5 decent players. I had us at 7 decent players. The rest aren’t good enough, but you have to try and make a team.

Agree but Clarke seems to be too slow to try replacements for players like Ralston and Hanley who are routinely bombscares in matches. To his credit, some new blood did make an appearance last night. Doak was excellent in his brief spell. Clarke is too conservative and negative for my liking and too slow to resort to a Plan B.

[lubo_blaha]

Easy to point fingers at team selection but we’re seriously lacking alternatives at present.

Hanley was our best defender and possibly best player in Germany, as well as at the previous euros, and probably deserved to retain his place. He’s not playing regularly at club level but neither are Porteous and Souttar. Hendry and Tierney are out injured and Cooper doesn’t even have a club.

Likewise at right back; Hickey, Patterson, McCrorie, Ramsay all injured/not playing. After that, you’re looking at the likes of O’Donnell or Devlin. 

McLean as well was the obvious choice as a deeper left sided centre mid. Alternatives would’ve been Christie, McGinn or McTominay dropping in, all of whom played well further forward, or giving Connor Barron a shot. 

 

[Crùbag]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

^^^ what he said.

McGinn was excellent and I thought Christie was arguably our poorest starter on the night in terms of his general performance level. I accept didn't make any game changing mistakes in the way McGinn, Hanley, Ralston and McLean did.

Robertson was ok last night without being especially good.

Really? I was in the stadium, parallel with the penalty area he was attacking when he came on and I thought he was an absolute mile off it. Never where he should have been, beaten every time the ball went near him and noticeably a yard or more short of pace when chasing anything. The latter isn't a surprise of course, we know it before he goes on, but he doesn't give us anything like the ability to harass opposing defenders that Adams and Dykes do.

 

I'm inevitably biased to an extent about Dykes but I'm surprised if people think Shankland offered anything positive last night when he came on. I'm perfectly capable of giving praise to both Adams and Shankland when they deserve it. I thought Shankland had a good game in Holland for instance and given his form 2nd half of last season there was a good argument for giving him more game time for Scotland. He's miles away from that level right now though. I think a lot of our fans are very guilty of over-rating Adams and his contributions lately. I like him but it's over two years since he had a decent game for Scotland.

 

This is a pretty wild take for me. There's not much football about Grant Hanley, you're right. The idea that Porteous is any better at it though is fanciful. Hanley's your basic stopper who had a useful turn of pace (not sure he still has it). McKenna is the one who has a wee bit of football about him though he's slow. He's currently in form and playing regularly though so he simply has to start.

Interesting to see if Clarke largely sends out the same again on Sunday despite the mistakes or makes changes.

Am not sure what's eating Shankland at the moment. He's patently off the boil in a stuttering/ failing Hearts team too at the moment. I would disagree re not harassing opposing defenders. In his spell at Hearts, until recently, he's contanstly working hard to pull defenders this way or that, involve other teammates, make space and direct, as well as being a superb finisher. I'd rather have him in there than Dykes or Adams.

[cyderspaceman]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

You've just made that up though, we have no idea whether clubs elsewhere wanted him. Playing for Las Palmas in La Liga is clearly a better move than Rangers right now, so I don't know why you'd assume he wasn't offered anything. I am pretty sure most English Championship clubs would have been very interested in him given his performances at that level (and the level above), but he was given a chance to play top flight football in a very good league and presumably earn a bit more than most of them could pay.

Not to mention sunshine and a nicer lifestyle.  

 

Also, just want to say, the Scotland team has regained its ability to lose in spectacular style. None of this 'just being pish' nonsense.

 

Edited September 6 by cyderspaceman

[Skyline Drifter]

46 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

I’m sorry, you don’t think Porteous is a better football player than Hanley?

That’s one of the wildest shouts I’ve ever seen on here! He struggles to move in any direction with the ball and pass further than three yards sideways. 

McKenna is absolutely not slow either. 

100%

Porteous is not a better football player than Hanley. Prior to the last year Hanley was probably our most mobile centre half.

McKenna's not slow if he's in a foot race with Shankland. Other than that, yes he is. He's certainly slower than Hanley and Hendry and probably than Porteous.

[craigkillie]

40 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Porto is a heidcase and more than capable of doing what Hanley done last night. The difference is Porteous is 25 and has time to learn and correct such behaviour. Hanley is a diddy who has continually made diddy mistakes like last night and won't ever change, given he is now 32. Porteous, Souttar and Hendry all better options than Hanley for me. 

I don't disagree with the overall point here, but I can't recall Hanley making many mistakes for Scotland before now.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

10 hours ago, dundeefc1783 said:

Just home from game. 

I am getting fed up of it taking f**king ages to get home from Hampden. I can accept it taking an age to get away from the ground however, it's almost every game now that there is constant road closures, over night roadworks etc. Tonight it was the slip from the M73 to M80 closed meaning a f**king huge diversion to just come back on ourselves then further along the M80 more f**king roadworks with nose to tail traffic for miles. 

Surely to f**k when Scotland are playing these works can be delayed until after midnight to let the traffic get away.

It's just not worth the hassle for these midweek games 

Nothing to do with football, but they do this constantly around Glasgow at night. A few times I have driven out of the city centre onto the motorway only to discover everyone is being filtered off at junction x and of course the lights are on their normal timings so the queue on the exit is fkn enormous.

No thought goes into the delays caused whatsoever.

And as for Jct 15 at Charing X - that must be  5 years now and no sign of any change/improvement/progress

[FuzzyBear]

1 hour ago, Bacchus said:

Playing in La Liga for a team always struggling to avoid relegation. Yes there are the bright lights of La Liga and living in the Canary Isles.  As for not wanting to go to play for Rangers. Rangers are a better team than Las Palmas

Did you really just say Rangers are a  better team than Las Palmas .

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I don't disagree with the overall point here, but I can't recall Hanley making many mistakes for Scotland before now.

Have you entirely wiped Hanley's first 30 caps from your mind. 

He's always made mistakes.   He's made less as he's gone on but he's very rarely been someone you can trust.  

 

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

9 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

And in isolation he's not wrong. I mean he might be the only man in Scotland who starts Kenny McLean, but still ....

As a performance I thought it was probably our best in a long time. Certainly since Cyprus away and against a half decent side our best since we beat Spain. Arguably for an hour or so of the Dutch friendly we were good too but we lost it 4-0! 

We were the better side. We had pace and passing. We created a few decent chances, though some if the crossing 1st half in particular was horribly overhit. We looked better with Dykes in than we ever did with Adams. We defended well in a four. McTominay and McGinn looked the players they did at the start of the last qualifiers. 

Sadly none of that matters when you give away three such criminally bad goals as we did. I'd never have started McLean but he played pretty well overall. But he sells Gilmour horribly short on the 1st goal. Boy hits it really well to be fair. Having seen the highlights, criticism of Gunn is a bit harsh. It dips and bounces just in front of him and its in off the post.

I'd just finished saying to my son that Ralston might have been our best player 1st half when he loses the plot, gets caught wrong side, and then clumsily gave away a penalty trying to make up for it. He went on to assist our 2nd but try as he will he's always liable to do things like that. Until Patterson's back we just have to make do though.

If the 2nd was bad the 3rd is absolutely criminal. First from the otherwise outstanding McGinn who dwells on a ball deep in his own half in 96 minutes. Then from Hanley who also otherwise played well but goes with his wrong foot into a needless challenge on a guy whose scoring angle was close to non existent. Finally from Gunn who guesses right but somehow dives over the penalty.

Horrible. Not really deserved, yet fully deserved all at the same time.

 

Edited to add, decent cameo from Doak and to a lesser extent Gauld and Morgan. Shankland though would have been as well sat next to me in the stand. Miles off it. There were people on here this morning saying he should start! 

Your point about crossing. For me Robertson is very guilty of getting into a position and far too often delivering a really poor cross/pass. Other players would be called out for it much more often. 

[No_Problemo]

10 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

100%

Porteous is not a better football player than Hanley. Prior to the last year Hanley was probably our most mobile centre half.

McKenna's not slow if he's in a foot race with Shankland. Other than that, yes he is. He's certainly slower than Hanley and Hendry and probably than Porteous.

Better with the ball at his feet as opposed to football player…

Athleticism is McKenna’s main strength, he isn’t remotely slow. 

[Skyline Drifter]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I don't disagree with the overall point here, but I can't recall Hanley making many mistakes for Scotland before now.

Yeah there's a lot of rewriting history going on here. Prior to his achilles injury at the tail end of  2022/23 Grant Hanley was pretty clearly our best centre back, and one of the quickest players in the squad. He was then out for about a year give or take. He came back around Xmas 2023 but it was too early and he wasn't right and Norwich sent him back into rehab. He went to the Euros anyway, partly because of a lack of better options maybe, but he went. The lack of match sharpness cost him his starting position but Porteous' aberration v Germany let him back in and actually he barely put a foot wrong in the 2.5 games he played in Germany. He damn near won us both the Swiss and Hungarian games for good measure.

It's not ideal that he has only started a couple of games for Norwich this season certainly but with Hendry and Tierney out and Porteous not starting either he was always likely to play. The problem is that as I suggested above, playing centre half in a four exposes his lack of match sharpness more than playing sweeper in a three does. He was still very good for 95 minutes last night though and the ridiculous challenge ruined what was actually a pretty good showing. Maybe he doesn't feel he needs to make that challenge if there's a five. Indeed it's probably not him tracking that run if Hendry's playing. He's probably the one waiting to cut out anything that comes over.

At 32 Hanley isn't needing pushed out for one error. I'd still pick him ahead of any of the other centre halves in the team personally, but I'd prefer him at sweeper. Again though the cost of that more secure formation is a loss of body in the midfield or wing and we're maybe less adventurous. I suspect it's what we'll do in Lisbon. I don't see us starting with three high players over there.

[Northboy]

 

Apart from the obvious frustration of the penalties what disappointed me last night was the quality of our delivery into the box - our crosses were hit and hope with no one getting near them. Late on we had a corner from the right, can't remember who took it but it came over at around 20ft in the air and straight out for a goal kick. Only decent delivery was Robertson's free kick for McTominay's disallowed goal.