Madeleine Mccann Missing Girl

[Ziggy]

To be fair, had the internet and other technology been around at the time of the Yorkshire Ripper's reign of terror, I reckon he would have been caught far sooner.

It's very rare these days to hve a real mystery like this. That isn't a bad thing. The world is a far safer place these days let's not forget. I think that is what this case even weirder.

Its been mental. Its been over 100 days and we still don't really have a clue what really happened let alone who did it.

[MCL]

just wondering about the car stuation,surely the police would have checked every person who hired the car, on and after the date maddie went missing not just the parents rental period,and the people who worked for the hire firms movements, after she went missing, just a thought, did the mammys boy who was under suspicion hire a car?

Murat was allegedly the guy that organised swinging parties in the resort. He was in Exeter a couple of weeks before Maddie went missing and three of the couples that were at the dinner stay in Exeter.

His Russian mate, the computer expert, had allegedly wiped Murat's computer (including all the details of the parties and the participants) before the police arrived to search his Mammy's villa.

[RedWeb]

Anyone remember Suzie Lamplugh ? She was the woman who disappeared after she left her west London office in July 1986 to show a man called "Mr Kipper" around a house in Fulham. She was never seen again and was officially declared dead in 1994. 8 years and the useless UK plod couldn't find the woman. It would therefore appear it's not only the Portuguese police who occasionally have problems solving crimes. You'd have thought from all the xenophobic pish that's been flung in the direction of Portugal that we were somehow any better...doesn't appear to be that way.

[bluetooner]

Anyone remember Suzie Lamplugh ? She was the woman who disappeared after she left her west London office in July 1986 to show a man called "Mr Kipper" around a house in Fulham. She was never seen again and was officially declared dead in 1994. 8 years and the useless UK plod couldn't find the woman. It would therefore appear it's not only the Portuguese police who occasionally have problems solving crimes. You'd have thought from all the xenophobic pish that's been flung in the direction of Portugal that we were somehow any better...doesn't appear to be that way.

Has there been xenophobic pish? or is it just people wanting the police to do a better job than they are doing? (no matter if it has happened in the UK or not)

[RedWeb]

Has there been xenophobic pish?

....of course there has....although living in the States you won't have had the chance to read the daily "Portuguese police are moustachioed 2 hour lunch break wasters who couldn't solve the puzzle of their own flexi-time" diatribe we get most days

[Reynard]

You'd have thought from all the xenophobic pish that's been flung in the direction of Portugal that we were somehow any better...doesn't appear to be that way.

What "xenophobic pish" would this be?

I think you are confusing genuine criticism of the police over there for something else. They certainly haven`t covered themselves in glory. As has been said already this IS an issue for the Portugese police to deal with. If this level of incompetence was being displayed under similar circumstances in this country then you can be sure our police would take a pasting too.

Why the hell would you choose to fling in xenophobia into this? You are quite frankly talking shite.

[ICTChris]

To be fair, had the internet and other technology been around at the time of the Yorkshire Ripper's reign of terror, I reckon he would have been caught far sooner.

It's very rare these days to hve a real mystery like this. That isn't a bad thing. The world is a far safer place these days let's not forget. I think that is what this case even weirder.

They'd have caught him earlier if they hadn't fucked the investigation up completely.

[bluetooner]

They'd have caught him earlier if they hadn't fucked the investigation up completely.

Yeah, but with the internet around they could have came onto PnB and found out the killer from all the private Dicks here

[ICTChris]

I remember watching a documentary on the Ripper case and it showed footage of the documents collected as part of the Ripper enquiry, there were literally millions of them, unbelievably complicated.

Eventually he was caught when he was nicked with a prostitute completely by chance. He had been questioned several times previously.

[The Old Northerner]

I remember watching a documentary on the Ripper case and it showed footage of the documents collected as part of the Ripper enquiry, there were literally millions of them, unbelievably complicated.

Eventually he was caught when he was nicked with a prostitute completely by chance. He had been questioned several times previously.

And there was (at least) one member of the public seriously trying to derail the investigation - who was recently banged up I believe

[xbl]

You realise what the police have said so far? Basically nothing!

The papers are full of "it is alleged", "reportedly", "a family source revealed". Fact of the matter is, everyone is slagging the Portugese police for doing nothing when in reality nobody actually knows what the police are or are not doing! Leave them alone and let them get on with their job.

Its Iran 'illegally capturing' British navy personnel all over again. We rushed to put words in the mouth of the Iranians, making claims based on stuff they never said, or worse, that our government claimed the Iranians said. Were doing the same here.

Yet again, I am one of the few visionaries and clear thinkers on pie and bovril, while the rest of you sheep follow the every move of the media and popular culture.

[Div]

I reckon it was Sean and Amelie that did it. They were in the right place at the right time, they don't look overly bothered by the whole thing, and they're not saying much either. Guilty !

[Reynard]

And there was (at least) one member of the public seriously trying to derail the investigation - who was recently banged up I believe

Wearside Jack

[ICTChris]

And there was (at least) one member of the public seriously trying to derail the investigation - who was recently banged up I believe

Wearside Jack

There was ample evidence at the time that Wearside Jack was a hoaxer. Some of the details in the tape were obviously lifted from media coverage.

One theory behind it before they caught the guy was that it was a police officer - I believe one of the lead detectives had been an Internal Affiars officer who had got a number of coppers fired or prosecuted a few years before. Turned out it was a loner.

[Broccoli Dog]

Who plays poker, can anyone spot a bluff?

[Musketeer Gripweed]

I remember watching a documentary on the Ripper case and it showed footage of the documents collected as part of the Ripper enquiry, there were literally millions of them, unbelievably complicated.

Eventually he was caught when he was nicked with a prostitute completely by chance. He had been questioned several times previously.

Aye it was complicated evidence. But the fact isthe police had

1 - A clear boot print the same as Sutcliffe's at the scene of one of the crimes.

2 - A brand new Bank of England £5 given in wages which could only have belonged to him or one of his dozen or so workmates.

3 - A bloody good photofit of him.

4 - His number plate appearing in red light districts all over the North of England at the time.

And they still only caught him by chance after he went for a pish in the trees so he could drop his hammer. They hadn't collated all that evidence together.

Murat "looked a bit funny" and became a suspect.

My, hasn't policing come on in the last 30 years.

[Guest Tomsk The Beano]

Metro this morning is reporting a French investigator who has seen the Police report and alleges it states that the DNA in the boot is so full of sedative that it would have OD'd the kid.

[Guest Captain Saintsible]

Portuguese detectives have been urged to ditch their case against Gerry and Kate McCann and re-open the investigation into a girl who disappeared in similar circumstances to Madeleine.

Crime expert Mark Williams-Thomas believes there are far too many similarities between the two cases for it not to be a strong line of police inquiry.

Mr Williams-Thomas, a former detective who is now a child protection specialist, said: "I can't accept that Gerry and Kate as parents of the child could have been involved in her murder - even based on the fact that over 90% of murders are domestic-related.

"What I have difficulty in understanding is they would have killed her and stored her body for at least 25 days and left no evidence.

"At the very least the body would have started to decompose, especially in a hot country. And there was a huge risk of someone finding that body."

He believes the answer to the case may lie in the disappearance of an eight-year-old Portuguese girl in 2004.

Joana Cipriano vanished from a village just seven miles from Praia da Luz, where Madeleine disappeared.

Neither body has been found.

Joana's mother and uncle were jailed for her murder, but five police officers have now been accused of forcing false confessions out of them.

Mr Williams-Thomas believes that because of the huge doubts over the convictions, whoever abducted Joana is more than likely to be behind Madeleine's disappearance.

Joana vanished in Figueira He said he could not understand why the police are pursuing their "ludicrous" investigation into the McCanns, when such a strong line of inquiry remains open.

He added: "There's not a single case in the UK where two children who are unknown to each other have been abducted or disappeared within a period of four years in a seven-mile radius.

"On that basis it has to be a serious line of inquiry to eliminate it as a huge coincidence.

"Portugal is a small country with very, very few abductions so two young girls vanishing out of thin air with their bodies never being recovered is something that needs to be investigated."

Joana vanished on September 12, 2004, after setting off from home in the village of Figueira to collect groceries. She never returned.

Like Madeleine McCann's case, the police investigation got off to a bad start. They failed to seal off the house where she was last seen.

Joana's mother Leonor and her brother Joao were jailed for 16 years for her murder.

But they claim they were set up and police have been named as suspects in their "torture".

Cipriano alleges police beat her to make her confess. A photograph of her heavily-bruised face was published in Portuguese newspapers.

She says the interrogation took place without her lawyer present and without the knowledge of the public prosecutor.

Mark Williams-ThomasPolice claimed Joana discovered Cipriano and her brother having sex when she returned with the groceries.

They said the pair were afraid Joana would tell what she saw and killed her.

Mr Williams-Thomas says because of the doubt over the safety of the convictions, the case should be re-opened.

But to compound the Madeleine investigation further, a senior detective in the hunt is one of the five officers alleged to have extracted the confessions.

Goncalo Amaral, who is number three in the Madeleine inquiry, and his officers have been accused of torture, omission of evidence and falsification of documents.

Portugal's Ministerio Publico has not revealed who has been accused of which offence.

Mr Williams-Thomas said: "This casts huge doubt in my mind about the integrity of the investigating officer.

"Even if we work on the basis that he is innocent, given this allegation against him, he shouldn't have anything to do with the Madeleine investigation."

He stressed: "There are so many similarities between the cases it has to be eliminated.

"Therefore to consider solely Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects rather than considering all the options is ludicrous."

The former detective also heavily criticised the Portuguese police inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.

Forensics tests at Madeleine apartmentCommenting on their emergency application to seize Gerry McCann's laptop computer and reportedly even Madeleine's favourite toy Cuddle Cat, he said: "I think it's amazing that they haven't already seized them.

"This is the whole problem with the case. They are treating Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects but aren't dealing with them as suspects.

"Why didn't they do that when she went missing? They are back-tracking.

"They are trying to recover the situation, forensically and evidentally, they lost at the first opportunity."

Another crime expert believes even if the police do charge the McCanns they will struggle to convict them - because Madeleine's body is still missing and there is no evidence that has been made public to suggest she is even dead.

Desmond Thomas, a former deputy head of Hampshire CID who is now a forensic management consultant, says he does not believe anyone will be found guilty unless a body or weapon is discovered.

He said: "I think the Portuguese police are struggling. Of course, we cannot be sure about exactly what is in the dossier they have prepared.

"But from what we know this far, if I was bringing the charges, I would be nervous about it being successful.

"The only way I can see anyone being successfully charged is if the body is found and they can link it clearly to them."

This may be some solace to the McCanns, but then Portuguese courts may have a different conviction rate to UK courts.

After all, detectives managed to "solve" Joana's murder, and there was no body or weapon found.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Captain Saintsible

[Guest Ron Burgundy]

Real Scots read the Record, yeah!

Who plays poker, can anyone spot a bluff?

So Devilfish what do you makie of gerry's "tells?

Well Jesse if you watch his nervous touch of the earlobe as he answers the question we can see he's hiding something, or is he trying to double bluff the police into thinking he's holding pocket rockets?

[Savage Henry]

Mr Williams-Thomas, a former detective who is now a child protection specialist, said: "I can't accept that Gerry and Kate as parents of the child could have been involved in her murder - even based on the fact that over 90% of murders are domestic-related.

That sounds like someone with an alterior motive for speaking. Sounds a rather unscientific thing to say for a former detective.