Rugby Union

[GordonS]

34 minutes ago, honestly united said:

I dont think we are that unsettled, I think a first 15 picks itself, and everyone knows how we want to play. What Toonie has been doing during the autumn internationals is giving the back ups plenty of game time and trying new formations. Ritchie, Skinner and Hastings have come in a cemented a place in the squad, Strauss is back in the fold. I thought Alex Allan put in a decent shift when called on up front, after some good performances for Glasgow. 

I would say know our best team is 

Dell

Brown / McInally

Nell

Gray

Skinner

Watson

Barclay

Strauss / Wilson

Laidlaw / Horne

Russell

Seymour

Dunbar

Jones

Maitland

Hogg

Toss up at hooker, scrum half depends on opposition and no. 8 I still dont think is nailed down, plus we have plenty on the bench.

You've got a guy at lock who made his debut a little over three weeks ago, and a back row with a guy who sat out the past year, and without Ritchie, who got a lot of game time this autumn, Bradbury, the delayed Blade Thomson and the coming Fagerson. I think you're right in that the first three are broadly settled (though Strauss did himself no favours on Saturday and I'm sure Thomson will get his chance), but I'm not sure the blend is actually settled. It was working in the spring though, so maybe I'm worrying too much. 

I'm not sure Dunbar is first pick at 12, Townsend seems to prefer Peter Horne. Horne's got great skills, but in a back line short of physicality he seems to take a beating. By the time February comes around would we rule out the on-form choices at 12 being Bennett, Taylor, Scott and Harris?

In any case, the bigger uncertainty across the back is, how do we actually attack? Before this autumn we were all about building a few phases, drawing in defenders, getting quick ruck ball and then spinning it wide to guys running good lines. How many times did we do that against Wales, South Africa or Argentina? Our ruck was poor, we couldn't take care of our own ball and we got slowed down. Laidlaw has been back to the kind of play that saw him behind Ali Price in the pecking order for a while - a couple of beats too slow at the base of every ruck. By mixing up forwards and backs in the attack line we regularly had isolated players getting tackled and turned over. Everyone else is using pods of three at the ruck - one down, one to hit their first guy and one to get over the ball. I'm not saying we need to do the same, but we need to do something. All SA and Argentina had to do against us was take care of the basics and wait for us to cough up. We were going wide too quickly because we were getting hurt up front and too often it was too slow, static and obvious, leading to poor kicks.

The other problem is who comes off the bench at 9 and 10. Price looks to have been passed by George Horne, but he didn't show anything in the past few weeks. And Hastings... that didn't go well. He's going to have to learn fast.

I think the refereeing of the ruck is really harming us. Opponents get to go right over the ball, not support their weight, put hands on the ground and all they have to do is wait for the shout of "away red/ hands off green/ no blue!" before pulling away. By then the damage is done, they've added over a second to the ruck and that's all it takes. Nigel Owens showed how referees think on this in the Calcutta Cup match last season, when he didn't call advantage against England, but pulled them back for the penalty only after they'd intercepted and were about to score a try from the halfway line. You could hear him explain "the damage was done." Well, the damage is done at nearly every bloody ruck!

We're lucky to have two hookers that basically do the same job at the same level, they don't often last a full match in international rugby any more. Same at tight head, where we missed Zander.

Was there progress this autumn compared to last autumn? England, Wales and Ireland won 5 matches between them against the southern hemisphere's big three, and England were a whisker from beating NZ. I just feel that we've stalled a bit, all the old problems are there and now we have some new ones.

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

You've got a guy at lock who made his debut a little over three weeks ago, and a back row with a guy who sat out the past year, and without Ritchie, who got a lot of game time this autumn, Bradbury, the delayed Blade Thomson and the coming Fagerson. I think you're right in that the first three are broadly settled (though Strauss did himself no favours on Saturday and I'm sure Thomson will get his chance), but I'm not sure the blend is actually settled. It was working in the spring though, so maybe I'm worrying too much. 

I'm not sure Dunbar is first pick at 12, Townsend seems to prefer Peter Horne. Horne's got great skills, but in a back line short of physicality he seems to take a beating. By the time February comes around would we rule out the on-form choices at 12 being Bennett, Taylor, Scott and Harris?

In any case, the bigger uncertainty across the back is, how do we actually attack? Before this autumn we were all about building a few phases, drawing in defenders, getting quick ruck ball and then spinning it wide to guys running good lines. How many times did we do that against Wales, South Africa or Argentina? Our ruck was poor, we couldn't take care of our own ball and we got slowed down. Laidlaw has been back to the kind of play that saw him behind Ali Price in the pecking order for a while - a couple of beats too slow at the base of every ruck. By mixing up forwards and backs in the attack line we regularly had isolated players getting tackled and turned over. Everyone else is using pods of three at the ruck - one down, one to hit their first guy and one to get over the ball. I'm not saying we need to do the same, but we need to do something. All SA and Argentina had to do against us was take care of the basics and wait for us to cough up. We were going wide too quickly because we were getting hurt up front and too often it was too slow, static and obvious, leading to poor kicks.

The other problem is who comes off the bench at 9 and 10. Price looks to have been passed by George Horne, but he didn't show anything in the past few weeks. And Hastings... that didn't go well. He's going to have to learn fast.

I think the refereeing of the ruck is really harming us. Opponents get to go right over the ball, not support their weight, put hands on the ground and all they have to do is wait for the shout of "away red/ hands off green/ no blue!" before pulling away. By then the damage is done, they've added over a second to the ruck and that's all it takes. Nigel Owens showed how referees think on this in the Calcutta Cup match last season, when he didn't call advantage against England, but pulled them back for the penalty only after they'd intercepted and were about to score a try from the halfway line. You could hear him explain "the damage was done." Well, the damage is done at nearly every bloody ruck!

We're lucky to have two hookers that basically do the same job at the same level, they don't often last a full match in international rugby any more. Same at tight head, where we missed Zander.

Was there progress this autumn compared to last autumn? England, Wales and Ireland won 5 matches between them against the southern hemisphere's big three, and England were a whisker from beating NZ. I just feel that we've stalled a bit, all the old problems are there and now we have some new ones.

Have you been drinking with JLD?

I'm off to slit my wrists after reading that.

[Jaggy Snake]

I agree we never really played our first choice team so wouldn’t get too worried at this stage. I also agree with Gordon’s point though about us not taking care of the ball at rucks. It was noticeable through all four games.

In terms of selection, the only real concern for me is the back row where, apart from Hamish Watson, no one has really cemented their place. Jamie Ritchie’s performances varied from anonymous to excellent over the last couple of weeks, and he needs to guarantee himself as a first choice for Edinburgh before anything else. It remains to be seen if and how Barclay recovers.

Number 8 is an issue but we were just unlucky Blade Thomson got injured just before the internationals. I personally have never really liked Ryan Wilson, not helped by his tendency to get involved in scuffles, but he probably is first choice just now. Strauss has always been a popular player but he was awful in his penultimate year at Glasgow, and although he improved in his final year, he never reached the same heights again. Hopefully Matt Fagerson will continue to improve over the next year.

Pete Horne has his uses but Dunbar absolutely is first choice 12 at Glasgow and Scotland.

I wouldn’t judge Hastings on Saturday’s performance at all. He’s barely played with Laidlaw and had Finn in an unconventional position beside him. That was another reason why I didn’t agree with Laidlaw playing the whole game. George Horne & Hastings know each other’s games, and Horne could have actually helped Hastings play better. Add in the weather and Argentina always being a tough side to play against and it wasn't an easy game for someone still inexperienced at that level.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Jaggy Snake

[Savage Henry]

I would say at this point the Hastings/Russell combo didn't really look like a viable option for the 6 Nations.

The two unknowns are Sam Johnson and Blade Thomson.  They sound like a pair of Tintin characters, but Thomson could quite easily see Strauss head back to the wilderness (I still don't understand his relationship with Townsend).  Johnson has come over as a project player and seems to be very highly rated by Dave Rennie.   I'm not a Horne guy at all, but he has a decent scoring record, and whenever I think of centres I always go back to De Rollo, Henderson and De Luca to get a healthy dose of reality.

Barclay's a big miss in the back row, it's fair to say.  

The good news is the back line is as dynamic as I can remember Scotland having, especially with Maitland coming on to some real form, and I think the hookers are both excellent, modern players who can actually hook the ball.  McInally is my pick, but I'm okay with Brown.  There seem to be about half a dozen second rows who are all solid.  Sam Skinner reminded me of the hulking brutes that made up the English second row in the 1990s.

I actually worry that the team has stalled a bit, but the first choice XV should be able to win at least three games in the 6N. 

And then of course there are the inevitable injuries which will alter the 6N squad into the World Cup squad.

[Mark Connolly]

Andy Farrell will become Ireland's Head Coach when Joe Schmidt steps down after the RWC

[honestly united]

7 hours ago, GordonS said:

You've got a guy at lock who made his debut a little over three weeks ago, and a back row with a guy who sat out the past year, and without Ritchie, who got a lot of game time this autumn, Bradbury, the delayed Blade Thomson and the coming Fagerson. I think you're right in that the first three are broadly settled (though Strauss did himself no favours on Saturday and I'm sure Thomson will get his chance), but I'm not sure the blend is actually settled. It was working in the spring though, so maybe I'm worrying too much. 

I'm not sure Dunbar is first pick at 12, Townsend seems to prefer Peter Horne. Horne's got great skills, but in a back line short of physicality he seems to take a beating. By the time February comes around would we rule out the on-form choices at 12 being Bennett, Taylor, Scott and Harris?

In any case, the bigger uncertainty across the back is, how do we actually attack? Before this autumn we were all about building a few phases, drawing in defenders, getting quick ruck ball and then spinning it wide to guys running good lines. How many times did we do that against Wales, South Africa or Argentina? Our ruck was poor, we couldn't take care of our own ball and we got slowed down. Laidlaw has been back to the kind of play that saw him behind Ali Price in the pecking order for a while - a couple of beats too slow at the base of every ruck. By mixing up forwards and backs in the attack line we regularly had isolated players getting tackled and turned over. Everyone else is using pods of three at the ruck - one down, one to hit their first guy and one to get over the ball. I'm not saying we need to do the same, but we need to do something. All SA and Argentina had to do against us was take care of the basics and wait for us to cough up. We were going wide too quickly because we were getting hurt up front and too often it was too slow, static and obvious, leading to poor kicks.

The other problem is who comes off the bench at 9 and 10. Price looks to have been passed by George Horne, but he didn't show anything in the past few weeks. And Hastings... that didn't go well. He's going to have to learn fast.

I think the refereeing of the ruck is really harming us. Opponents get to go right over the ball, not support their weight, put hands on the ground and all they have to do is wait for the shout of "away red/ hands off green/ no blue!" before pulling away. By then the damage is done, they've added over a second to the ruck and that's all it takes. Nigel Owens showed how referees think on this in the Calcutta Cup match last season, when he didn't call advantage against England, but pulled them back for the penalty only after they'd intercepted and were about to score a try from the halfway line. You could hear him explain "the damage was done." Well, the damage is done at nearly every bloody ruck!

We're lucky to have two hookers that basically do the same job at the same level, they don't often last a full match in international rugby any more. Same at tight head, where we missed Zander.

Was there progress this autumn compared to last autumn? England, Wales and Ireland won 5 matches between them against the southern hemisphere's big three, and England were a whisker from beating NZ. I just feel that we've stalled a bit, all the old problems are there and now we have some new ones.

On Skinner, I think he is better than either Gilchrist or Toolis, not by much, but is a better option. 

Barclay may have been out for 6 months, but his experience at the breakdown is invaluable, and I would have him straight back in unless he is completely off the pace on his return. Given Watson, Barclay and Wilson were the backrow pretty much all the last 6 nations where we did pretty well I would be happy to stick with that. Thompson may add something to the mix, Bradbury, Hardie, Denton, Ashe, Fagerson, Strauss, Graham and Ritchie will all be in their leading up to the world cup and all add something different.

As you point out the ruck was really poor, and Laidlaw doesn't help as he takes an age to get the ball out. Both Price and Horne are quicker players which would help out, but Laidlaw is better at managing games. Price lost his way abit last year, and I think Horne is the better player between those 2. I will come down to how we want to play, and do we have enough other leaders on the pitch on who starts. I would start Horne v Italy as we could really blow them away and lay down a marker for hte 6 nations.

Dunbar has missed a lot of rugby the last year, (the whole of the 6 nations last year), but i still think he is first choice at 12 over Horne, as he is solid defensively, and can punch holes, which is something we lack given the forwards we have. Horne is ideal for the bench as he can cover 10, 12 & 13, and if you also have Kinghorn who can cover wing and full back.

Having Taylor, Bennett and Scott back fit will give a bit of a headache going forward, with Grigg and Johnson looking to get in the squad also.

For me we probably didn't make the most of the AI's, but we are still looking at the best squad we have ever had. Im more used to asking why is someone in the squad, now you are wondering why players are missing out. Come the WC you will be able to put together a team of players who miss out on going to Japan, that would have hammered the best team we could muster in previous years which is a testament to how far we have come in the last 5 years.

[GAD]

On 26/11/2018 at 11:29, Mark Connolly said:

Andy Farrell will become Ireland's Head Coach when Joe Schmidt steps down after the RWC

Who are TerryChristian and Average hat stand and what did you do to them?

[Mark Connolly]

56 minutes ago, GAD said:

Who are TerryChristian and Average hat stand and what did you do to them?

Not sure. Signed in this morning to 20-odd reddies dishes out between them.

I’ve obviously upset someone!

[Savage Henry]

Who are TerryChristian and Average hat stand and what did you do to them?

I think it’s fairly obvious that TerryChristian is Wayne Barnes, and Average Hat Stand is Owen Farrell.

[Mark Connolly]

4 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

 

I think it’s fairly obvious that TerryChristian is Wayne Barnes, and Average Hat Stand is Owen Farrell.

 

I think we’re all fucked when John Lacey and George Clancy find P&B!

[GAD]

2 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Not sure. Signed in this morning to 20-odd reddies dishes out between them.

I’ve obviously upset someone!

Fucking weirdos. 

[come on shire]

Scarlets visit Scotstoun this Saturday. Since the Autumn Tests have just finished I'm hoping that the Scarlets rest their warlords. If they do I'm hopeful of a win.

[ajwffc]

Scarlets visit Scotstoun this Saturday. Since the Autumn Tests have just finished I'm hoping that the Scarlets rest their warlords. If they do I'm hopeful of a win.

Glasgow (also Edinburgh) will be in the same boat as they will not have the internationals(as they have hit the SRU rest period) .

[GAD]

1 hour ago, come on shire said:

Scarlets visit Scotstoun this Saturday. Since the Autumn Tests have just finished I'm hoping that the Scarlets rest their warlords. If they do I'm hopeful of a win.

From what I've read, Scarlets are only resting Owens and Parkes. All the rest are straight back in and they will be bringing a strong team. If you look at their conference this is actually a huge game for them, especially as they are already more or less out of Europe.

[come on shire]

5 hours ago, ajwffc said:

Glasgow (also Edinburgh) will be in the same boat as they will not have the internationals(as they have hit the SRU rest period) .

 

4 hours ago, GAD said:

From what I've read, Scarlets are only resting Owens and Parkes. All the rest are straight back in and they will be bringing a strong team. If you look at their conference this is actually a huge game for them, especially as they are already more or less out of Europe.

It's an important game for us but we're at home which helps. I just hope we can front up. This is where losing the last second penalty at Munster and the horror show at the Southern Kings may catch up with us.

5 hours ago, gogsy said:

Scotlands womens team running Canada close in game on BBC Alba, good going Canada ranked way above them in world rankings.

Unlucky not to snatch the win. Our full back found a gap with just a few mins left. I thought she had made it.

[GAD]

4 hours ago, come on shire said:

 

It's an important game for us but we're at home which helps. I just hope we can front up. This is where losing the last second penalty at Munster and the horror show at the Southern Kings may catch up with us.

Unlucky not to snatch the win. Our full back found a gap with just a few mins left. I thought she had made it.

It is quite important for us, but not as important as the two Lyon games I'd think. Even if we lose we will still be top of the conference and we are a fair bit ahead of third place. Scarlets in the other hand are miles behind Leinster and only 4 and 7 points ahead of Ulster and Edinburgh respectively so they really need the points.

You are right about that Southern Kings game though. An e tea couple of points from there and we'd have been pretty much home.

[come on shire]

3 hours ago, GAD said:

It is quite important for us, but not as important as the two Lyon games I'd think. Even if we lose we will still be top of the conference and we are a fair bit ahead of third place. Scarlets in the other hand are miles behind Leinster and only 4 and 7 points ahead of Ulster and Edinburgh respectively so they really need the points.

You are right about that Southern Kings game though. An e tea couple of points from there and we'd have been pretty much home.

Europe is very important.  We have the upper hand as Lyon have already lost 2.  If we can snatch a win in France then expect a 2nd string Lyon side visiting Scotstoun. 

However, the Pro14 is still the "bread and butter" which makes the Scarlets game massive.  The Kings game was an example of what happens when you turn up just expecting 5 points.

[Mark Connolly]

As much as I'd like us to do well in Europe, the Pro14 is the main event this year, with the final being in Glasgow.

We can't afford to not be there.

[GAD]

1 hour ago, Mark Connolly said:

As much as I'd like us to do well in Europe, the Pro14 is the main event this year, with the final being in Glasgow.

We can't afford to not be there.

Yeah, but I think we can do both. Even at this stage it would take a fair collapse not to make the playoffs. We've got a bit of breathing room now and really should be using our squad depth this weekend to give ourselves the best chance of beating Lyon in the double header.

Scarlets on the other hand are in danger of not even making the playoffs. They've got no choice but to put out the big guns.

[come on shire]

4 hours ago, GAD said:

Yeah, but I think we can do both. Even at this stage it would take a fair collapse not to make the playoffs. We've got a bit of breathing room now and really should be using our squad depth this weekend to give ourselves the best chance of beating Lyon in the double header.

Scarlets on the other hand are in danger of not even making the playoffs. They've got no choice but to put out the big guns.

I agree with you about doing both.  In rugby you can fight on 2 fronts.  It's not like football where Europe's played mid-week and because of rest protocols it's easier on the players (though some may disagree as player welfare is a hot topic atm).

I hear you completely about having breathing room, but any team worth their salt really has to front up and win their home games.  Especially since the other teams in our conference will probably get BP wins over the Southern Kings and Glasgow play Leinster away this season which will obviously be tough.  Also, we're in Treviso just after the bells and still need to go to Parma at the start of March.  The Italian teams aren't a guaranteed win anymore away from home. 

That makes our home game vs Scarlets huge.