Detournement Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 A third pro team would add high costs but very little income so more good players would probably leave. Look at some of the shocking lineups Glasgow and Edinburgh have put out over the past couple of years. A third pro team would lower the standard in both sides even further. The only thing that will improve Scottish rugby is cutting out the foreign journeymen as the Irish have done but there aren't enough pro level players yet. Hopefully Super Six changes that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, Detournement said: Broken jaw, nose and cheek bone for George Taylor from essentially a flying headbutt. The comments are full of Welsh idiots saying only a yellow. Jiffy obviously amongst them. He’s never in a position to make a legal tackle on someone shorter than him. Taylor dips slightly, but even if he hadn’t, the height at angle he’s hit at mean he would have been munching shoulder regardless. It’s a red, should be a big ban, and is the type of tackle they are trying to get rid of with the current framework. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 The worst thing is he has plenty of time to line up a legal tackle and the full body/legs to aim at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 47 minutes ago, Detournement said: A third pro team would add high costs but very little income so more good players would probably leave. Look at some of the shocking lineups Glasgow and Edinburgh have put out over the past couple of years. A third pro team would lower the standard in both sides even further. The only thing that will improve Scottish rugby is cutting out the foreign journeymen as the Irish have done but there aren't enough pro level players yet. Hopefully Super Six changes that. Its a tough call, you look at both Wales and Ireland with 4 teams and you think thats what we should be aiming at, however Ireland have done it well with 3 strong teams in the 3 big cities and a 4th which was pretty much (suppose to be) a development team - they are getting decent crowds and seem to have the money to keep all the internationals in Ireland, and can bring in marque foreign signings along with a conveyor belt of really good young players. Wales on the other hand all the regions and WRU seem to be skint, they have lost loads of top players to England and France similar to ourselves, the crowds have dropped and they dont seem to have the young players coming through. I agree that we shouldnt be signing foreigners to fill the bench or squad, we should only be signing foreign players that are going to make a difference to the team, I would much rather have some youngster fill the bench. I think we do need a 3rd team as you look at Dobie at Glasgow for example, he could do with playing every week to develop, but he is 3rd choice at Glasgow behind Price and Horne so game time is limited (he is probably close to 3rd / 4th choice for Scotland also). With only 2 pro teams you are in a position where 2nd choice at club is also 2nd or 3rd choice for the national team, which isnt healthy. A 3rd team as a development team with a few old heads (ie the likes of Horne sr, Barclay when he came back up, guys that are good pro's but getting past it) is the way too go, add in a few from Glasgow and Edinburgh that need game time would it cost anymore to run that the 6 Super 6 teams? Obvisouly you would get income form crowds and TV, sponsers etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 45 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: He’s never in a position to make a legal tackle on someone shorter than him. Taylor dips slightly, but even if he hadn’t, the height at angle he’s hit at mean he would have been munching shoulder regardless. It’s a red, should be a big ban, and is the type of tackle they are trying to get rid of with the current framework. Obviously you cant tell whats going through someones head but it looks more like bad technique than malicious. Its a 2nd row stuck out on the wing knowing he has to stop the winger otherwise he's half way down the park - not condoning the tackle but its more he's all over the place rather than deliberately trying to injury him, but its dreadful though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Rugby teams are expensive to run. 35 players minimum and loads of support staff. Nowhere in Scotland would provide a sustainable crowd. TV money overall wouldn't increase so it would likely come out the current SRU share. Sponsorship would likely be the same pie with more slices. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Another champagne classic going on 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 We are going the way of the Welsh, decent international team and shite Pro teams 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusTheBull Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Depending on the severity of injuries to Russell/Hastings, it looks like Weir could be the only FH (currently) in the squad for the Italy and France games. Vd Walt qualifies for Scotland on the 16th so would be missing the Italy game (14th) anyway. However, he’s off back to South Africa to get married on Friday so won’t be out of quarantine until the day of the France game (22nd). If neither Russell/Hastings make it, what other options do we have? Lang? I’m sure there’s a Townsend bolter hidden away somewhere who I’ve forgotten. I don’t want to think of Hogg and Kinghorn as Duncy Weir’s replacement against France. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 From what I have seen mention it will be Weir to start with Hogg or Laing getting moved if needed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 12 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: Another champagne classic going on I thought we matched them well for the first 15/ 20 minutes, but once they got the 2nd try they took control, then when they got the 3rd our heads went down - 2nd half was much improved and I think we deserved at least 1 if not 2 BP's. You have to play at 100% all game against whatever leinster team is on the park, taking the foot of the gas for 10 or 15 minutes and you've lost the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 14 hours ago, Detournement said: Rugby teams are expensive to run. 35 players minimum and loads of support staff. Nowhere in Scotland would provide a sustainable crowd. TV money overall wouldn't increase so it would likely come out the current SRU share. Sponsorship would likely be the same pie with more slices. There will be a new TV deal added to the pot when the big SA teams enter - this would be ideal opportunity to add a 3rd Scottish team - at the moment the Chetahs are out on their ear and being replaced by the 4 Super Rugby teams, for a 16 team league, it may be worth discussing 18 teams with the Chetahs and another Scottish team. The SRU are already paying for all the institute of sports guys playing for the Pro teams and Super 6's so they could be shifted to the new team at no extra cost. Also I would be looking at Georgia and saying I know you have players that need pro experience we will take 8-10 if you pay their wages. Youve then build the majority of the squad at no extra cost 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Even if you genuinely consider weakening Glasgow and Edinburgh so that a bunch of Scottish (and Georgian!) jobbers can get cricket scores put on them by Leinster and the Stormers as a good idea there is still the problem of paying for a training facility and finding a venue to play the games. Look at last night. Darcy Rae nowhere near it in the scrum, Harley a busted flush at lock, Peter Horne and Huw Jones kidding on they are a 10 and 15. Two wingers in their 30s. Brandon Thomson on the bench. Pierroto, Ioane, Lokotui and Tagive brought in from abroad simply to make up numbers. Chris Fusaro still playing 3 years after he would have been let go by Ulster or even Scarlets. The problem is the polar opposite of requiring a third pro team. The glaring problem is not having enough players for two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 45 minutes ago, Detournement said: Even if you genuinely consider weakening Glasgow and Edinburgh so that a bunch of Scottish (and Georgian!) jobbers can get cricket scores put on them by Leinster and the Stormers as a good idea there is still the problem of paying for a training facility and finding a venue to play the games. Look at last night. Darcy Rae nowhere near it in the scrum, Harley a busted flush at lock, Peter Horne and Huw Jones kidding on they are a 10 and 15. Two wingers in their 30s. Brandon Thomson on the bench. Pierroto, Ioane, Lokotui and Tagive brought in from abroad simply to make up numbers. Chris Fusaro still playing 3 years after he would have been let go by Ulster or even Scarlets. The problem is the polar opposite of requiring a third pro team. The glaring problem is not having enough players for two. I would say you have just highlighted why we need a 3rd development team - how do you bring young players through if they are not getting game time? At the moment the very best come through like Hogg, Russell & Gray in spite of the system, not because of it. Harley & Jones are still in the Scotland squad, Horne was not that long ago. The SRU are paying out for a stake in and sending players to a US team, a French team and London Scottish and the Super 6 - stop all of that and it would more than pay for another Pro team and then we might actually have the players coming through to fill it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, honestly united said: I would say you have just highlighted why we need a 3rd development team - how do you bring young players through if they are not getting game time? At the moment the very best come through like Hogg, Russell & Gray in spite of the system, not because of it. Harley & Jones are still in the Scotland squad, Horne was not that long ago. The SRU are paying out for a stake in and sending players to a US team, a French team and London Scottish and the Super 6 - stop all of that and it would more than pay for another Pro team and then we might actually have the players coming through to fill it. The issue is that there are no young players good enough to come in and get game time. Having a third Pro team isn't going to improve the overall standard, youth development is the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, Detournement said: The issue is that there are no young players good enough to come in and get game time. Having a third Pro team isn't going to improve the overall standard, youth development is the issue. We consistently beat wales in the u-20's but they somehow manage to get enough players for 4 teams My take is that, at the moment, unless your going to be a top class player, like Hogg, Gray, Russell, Dobie, your not getting any quality game time at 19/20/21/22 which is when you need it if you want to be a top class player, or even a remotely decent player. Players need exposure to that top level match situation to get the skills we need. At the moment the SRU are paying for all these guys in the Institute of Sport and the majority of these wont get a game for a pro side until they are 24/25 which by then its too late. Which is why we dont have a glut of players that you would call good club pro's, but just not international class - I would class guys like Horne, Grigg, Harley, Swinson who (at their prime) you would want to see in a Glasgow side, but probably not for Scotland - you look back at Glasgow over the last few years and the starting line up was either Scotland squad or international for Fiji / Canada etc or was waiting to be Scotland qualified. If more young players were getting game time we have then have that core of dependable but maybe not world class players. The institute of sport is also why we dont have that killer instinct to win close games - the players are developed in a little bubble where the isn't that pressure to win games, there is no winning league or cups and the mind set of winning isn't bred into them. I would see a third Scottish team a lot like Connaught was 5 or 10 years ago - a core of solid seasoned pro's that were not troubling the international team, with a lot of youngsters that as soon as they were in the international side would move on to Leinster or Munster. For me 2 teams is stunting the development of our younger players and the Super 6 was never going to fix that. Edit to add, on my first point I looked back at some old u20 squads, 2015 for example you now have players like Fagerson, Bradbury, Ritchie who were getting game time years ago and are now Scotland regulars, but you still think of Lewis Carmichael, Lewis Wynne and Robbie Nairn as youngsters when they get a game as they took so much longer to get there first starts 2015 Six Nations Under 20 Championship Squad Forwards Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh Rugby/Boroughmuir) Lewis Carmichael (Melrose) Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors/Glasgow Hawks) Andrew Davidson (Glasgow Warriors/Glasgow Hawks) Dan Elkington (Watsonians) Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors/Glasgow Hawks) Cameron Fenton (Glasgow Warriors/Stirling County) Ross Graham (Hawick) Neil Irvine-Hess (Melrose) Murray McCallum (Aberdeen Grammar Rugby/Aberdeen University) Ally Miller (Edinburgh Rugby/Watsonians) Jack Owlett (Exeter Chiefs/University of Exeter) Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh Rugby) Gary Robertson (Gala) Callum Sheldon (Edinburgh Rugby/Watsonians) Lewis Wynne (Stirling County) Backs Alec Coombes (London Scottish) Tom Galbraith (Melrose) Richard Galloway (University of Birmingham) George Horne (Glasgow Hawks) Ruairi Howarth (Edinburgh Rugby/Gala) Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) Patrick Kelly (Le Parc) Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Academy/Edinburgh Academicals FC) Robbie Nairn (George Watson’s College/Currie) Archie Russell (Stirling County) Ruaraidh Smith (Currie) Ben Vellacott (Gloucester/Hartpury College) Although Nairn is quite a bit younger being in the 2017 squad. 2017 is even starker in that M Fagerson and Darcy Graham are already Scotland regulars with Crosbie and McDowall there or there abouts - whereas Bain only made his Glasgow debut this week 2017 Six Nations Under 20 Championship Squad Forwards Hamish Bain (Currie) Fergus Bradbury (Stirling County) Alex Craig (Gloucester Academy) Luke Crosbie (Currie) Tom Dodd (Worcester Academy) Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Hawks) Bruce Flockhart (Glasgow Hawks) Thomas Gordon (Currie) Jonny Grant (Stewart’s Melville) Shaun Gunn (Edinburgh Accies) Callum Hunter-Hill (Stirling County) Adam Nicol (Stirling County) Fraser Renwick (Hawick) Jack Samuel (Cardiff Metropolitan University) George Thornton (Northumbria University) Jamie Ure (Boroughmuir) Daniel Winning (Boroughmuir) Backs Ruaridh Dawson (Newcastle Academy) Paddy Dewhirst (Ayr) Connor Eastgate (Wasps Academy) Darcy Graham (Hawick) Ali Greig (Bristol University) Josh Henderson (Glasgow Hawks) Cameron Hutchison (Currie) Stafford McDowall (Ayr) Ross McCann (Melrose) Robbie Nairn (Bristol University) Craig Pringle (Stirling County) Charlie Shiel (Currie) Andrew Simmers (Heriot’s) Edited November 4, 2020 by honestly united 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Scotland beat Wales because they have more private school players who have a conditioning advantage at that age group. There are no seasoned professionals who aren't required by Glasgow or Edinburgh. Give me a 23 for next season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Anybody know any fly halfs https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54813924 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Anybody know any fly halfs https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54813924 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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