GAD Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: Are you suggesting Owens won't know what way to sidestep when he sees teammates on both sides of the gap? He might even throw it to him by force of habit. Edited February 11, 2021 by GAD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: Bit harsh on Lang. he was pretty good in the game against them at LLanelli, and has very similar qualities to Redpath. Agree on Thomson though, I'm not sure what he brings Really? Redpath is a slippery runner and Lang is the shape of a fridge. I think Townsend is expecting we will dominate in the set piece but hopefully we have a plan B if Wales drag the game down into shitfest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: 3 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: Buying fully into the hype train I was having some fun earlier and thinking about players from the shite and "nearly" teams over the last 15 years or so I've been watching Scotland who would add something to this team which looks the best all round in that period. Presuming fitness and top form obviously came up with: Peak Barclay/Brown at 6 over Ritchie maybe? Probs not Simon Taylor/Johnny Beattie at 8? Cusiter or Blair would be terrific with this pack in front of them and backline outside them. Alex Dunbar at his best would be pretty perfect for what we're looking for from a 13 at the moment, but Mark Bennett is one who if it hadn't been for injury could have been a Jonathan Davies level all round 13. Chris Paterson, to do the Maitland job and kick lots of lovely goals Bit daft but I do enjoy these sort of what-ifs Patterson, are you having a laugh. He's get absolutely nowhere near this current team I don't think there's many teams turn down a close to 100% kicker who has other strong attributes and some clear weaknesses. See G.Laidlaw and L.Halfpenny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) I haven't checked but is it the same team that played vs Wales in the Autumn? To answer my own question,VDM for Kinghorn, Turner for Brown and Fagerson for Ritchie (with Thompson moving to 6) i think is a slightly stronger team, and hopefully Russell stays on longer this time Scotland 15Hogg 14D GrahamSubstituted forvan der Merweat 66'minutes 13Harris 12Lang 11Kinghorn 10RussellSubstituted forHastingsat 33'minutes 9Price 1SutherlandSubstituted forKebbleat 54'minutes 2BrownSubstituted forMcInallyat 54'minutes 3FagersonSubstituted forBerghanat 54'minutes 4Cummings 5J Gray 6Ritchie 7Watson 8ThomsonSubstituted forC du Preezat 54'minutes Substitutes 16McInally 17Kebble 18Berghan 19Toolis 20C du Preez 21Steele 22HastingsSubstituted forSteeleat 69'minutes 23van der Merwe Edited February 11, 2021 by honestly united 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I don't think there's many teams turn down a close to 100% kicker who has other strong attributes and some clear weaknesses. See G.Laidlaw and L.Halfpenny. This isn't American Football, the game has changed its so physical... Patterson just couldn't compete...see him costing us the World Cup game against Argentina 2011. Nowhere near the physicality for today's game 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusTheBull Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, honestly united said: Its not lack of depth, its lack of depth in the "bubble" as we are only choosing from the 35 man training squad. There was only 5 backrow players so it was a choice between Thompson and Graham one starting one on the bench. Same at centre the choice was between Taylor, Jones and Lang. Given this, I think Graham is a more effective option off the bench than Thompson which has possibly played into Townsends thinking. Also think Lang has shown up reasonably well before and is probably more similar in style to Redpath than any of the other options. Is Taylor actually fit? Get the feeling we're going to be in for 80 minutes of Biggar sticking high balls onto Darcy for Liam Williams to chase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: 10 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: I don't think there's many teams turn down a close to 100% kicker who has other strong attributes and some clear weaknesses. See G.Laidlaw and L.Halfpenny. This isn't American Football, the game has changed its so physical... Patterson just couldn't compete...see him costing us the World Cup game against Argentina 2011. Nowhere near the physicality for today's game I don't really get your point about American football, it's not a controversial statement that rugby teams will often consider someone who is perhaps not their strongest all round player in a position if they are able to guarantee effective goalkicking, given that it's quite important. Re the physicality largely agreed, but in this whimsical thought experiment which we are now taking very seriously you'd imagine growing up in and training in the modern rugby environment would help to address the "modern game's different chat". Paterson was probably a bad shout anyway see my reply to MC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Add me to the "Lang :(" camp. Someone has to offer more attacking threat alongside Harris and I can't remember Lang ever looking like that man. Hopefully proved wrong in this one. Thomson is there because he's the bigger lineout threat and Graham is more useful covering Watson and Fagerson from the bench 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I've got to be honest and say that these changes give me the fear. I've yet to see what Thompson offers to the back row...he seems to be brought in against the Welsh because he plays for a Welsh club. He's certainly no Ritchie. Graham. Aaaagh. Expect the Welsh to pepper him with high balls right from the off, because frankly he's a liability defensively and it worries me that he's been found out. Townsend has confidence in him though, so fingers crossed he's doing more attacking than defending. I really don't know enough about Lang, but after his debut last week it's devastating that Redford's missing on Saturday. Please, please, please. Let us win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Ever since Darcy Graham debuted for Edinburgh people have questioned his high ball and defensive ability. I presume this is solely down to his lack of height because he's almost never shown any weakness in either area. In fact he's generally excellent defensively, more solid than van der Merwe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 13 hours ago, afca32 said: Ever since Darcy Graham debuted for Edinburgh people have questioned his high ball and defensive ability. I presume this is solely down to his lack of height because he's almost never shown any weakness in either area. In fact he's generally excellent defensively, more solid than van der Merwe. I was just thinking back to the las game v Wales at Murrayfield, the defensive weakness was the other side of the pitch (KInghorn) where wales scored the first try and I am sure it was Graham that scored - infact I would have said apart from Watson was probably the best player on the pitch for Scotland. Just due to his size he will be seen as weak in the air / under the high ball, but for he hits much harder than his size would suggest 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 I don't really get your point about American football, it's not a controversial statement that rugby teams will often consider someone who is perhaps not their strongest all round player in a position if they are able to guarantee effective goalkicking, given that it's quite important. Re the physicality largely agreed, but in this whimsical thought experiment which we are now taking very seriously you'd imagine growing up in and training in the modern rugby environment would help to address the "modern game's different chat". Paterson was probably a bad shout anyway see my reply to MC In American football they can bring someone on just to kick and bring them off again, that can't be done in rugby. You could have the skinniest unfittest chap who comes on to take a field goal. Unfortunately in rugby that's not possible. Patterson would not be able to cope with the physicality of today's game, he'd never make the current team.Hope that clarifies 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Losing Redpath after his England performance is a blow, however James Lang is competent. Losing Maitland is a blow but D'Arcy Graham fitting in suits me. A better option than Kinghorn who couldn't tackle a fish supper. Blade Thomson isn't as solid as Jamie Ritchie but playing for Scarlets he'll at least know the opposition. However what gives me hope is that Wales are missing even more players through injury. Also, we're miles ahead of the team that lost to Tonga at Pittodrie in 2012, where our best players were Nick de Luca and Kelly Brown... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said: In American football they can bring someone on just to kick and bring them off again, that can't be done in rugby. You could have the skinniest unfittest chap who comes on to take a field goal. Unfortunately in rugby that's not possible. Patterson would not be able to cope with the physicality of today's game, he'd never make the current team. Hope that clarifies Yeah so that would make sense if anyone was suggesting picking a player to bring on and kick goals and then get off the pitch. Again, not what's being said and it's odd you won't acknowledge that almost guaranteed effective goal kicking is an important consideration when picking a back given it's fairly clear. As for physicality, again if you assume players from the past by definition wouldn't cope with the physicality of today's game that's just a bit silly. These guys weren't built in labs, the rugby environment they grew up, train and play in is substantially different and you'd have to assume all players came through at the same time. Otherwise you can apply the same criticism to someone like Gordon Brown or Jim Telfer and say they would be nowhere near the current team. Anyway, just a bit of fun Edited February 12, 2021 by Genuine Hibs Fan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said: In American football they can bring someone on just to kick and bring them off again, that can't be done in rugby. You could have the skinniest unfittest chap who comes on to take a field goal. Unfortunately in rugby that's not possible. Patterson would not be able to cope with the physicality of today's game, he'd never make the current team. Hope that clarifies Of course if we've hypothesised that Paterson has dropped through a 15 year wormhole in the space time continuum we should probably also hypothesise that with modern conditioning and training he'd make up some of that shortfall. Nonetheless he wasn't that big a unit by the standards of the day and it's not like he's going to get a regular game at Standoff or full back so essentially the pumped up, ripped version of mid '90s Paterson would be competing with Darcy Graham for a place on the wing on Saturday. In that situation Paterson's kicking might just swing the decision his way. I reckon his versatility would merit a place on the bench regardless but to be honest I'd be more concerned about the state of the space time continuum and the very fabric of reality 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: As for physicality, again if you assume players from the past by definition wouldn't cope with the physicality of today's game that's just a bit silly. These guys weren't built in labs, the rugby environment they grew up, train and play in is substantially different and you'd have to assume all players came through at the same time. Otherwise you can apply the same criticism to someone like Gordon Brown or Jim Twofer and say they would be nowhere near the current team. Anyway, just a bit of fun The increase in the size of players over the years if partly just down to the population in general getting taller but there also seems to be a drive to find the biggest physical specimens. You can coach technique, you can build muscle but you can't increase the dimensions of someones frame. I argued earlier that at 6 foot 5 Maro Itoje is a bit short for second row (only Lazzaroni, was shorter last weekend) but Itoje would tower over 20th century giants of the game like Colin Meads, Willie John McBride and Bill Beaumont. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: The increase in the size of players over the years if partly just down to the population in general getting taller but there also seems to be a drive to find the biggest physical specimens. You can coach technique, you can build muscle but you can't increase the dimensions of someones frame. I argued earlier that at 6 foot 5 Maro Itoje is a bit short for second row (only Lazzaroni, was shorter last weekend) but Itoje would tower over 20th century giants of the game like Colin Meads, Willie John McBride and Bill Beaumont. Kids are generally getting bigger, but i think it has more to do with weight training and diet than anything else. At my old club the 3rds used to play the local uni freshers every year. We used to beat them convincingly every year as we were so much bigger in the forwards, but it started to change maybe 10 years ago that all the kids where so much bigger physcially, that it went to our forwards saying get the ball out to hte backs as we couldn't compete up front - that was over a period of maybe 5 years and was a really noticeable change. We saw it with the kids coming through the colts. Instead of getting to the bar for a few bees after the game it was all protein shakes and ice baths but you could see the difference in size of the kids coming through. I remember when I was younger you at least had guys like Gary Armstrong and Brian Redpath that were about 5'7" now most of hte scum halfs are 6 foot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, honestly united said: Kids are generally getting bigger, but i think it has more to do with weight training and diet than anything else. At my old club the 3rds used to play the local uni freshers every year. We used to beat them convincingly every year as we were so much bigger in the forwards, but it started to change maybe 10 years ago that all the kids where so much bigger physcially, that it went to our forwards saying get the ball out to hte backs as we couldn't compete up front - that was over a period of maybe 5 years and was a really noticeable change. We saw it with the kids coming through the colts. Instead of getting to the bar for a few bees after the game it was all protein shakes and ice baths but you could see the difference in size of the kids coming through. I remember when I was younger you at least had guys like Gary Armstrong and Brian Redpath that were about 5'7" now most of hte scum halfs are 6 foot Our local freshers team were Edinburgh university so there was liable to be at least a couple of guys who'd played Schoolboy international level. We'd get beat in the first meeting and then win the second once their committee had taken all the good first year players for the main team and left the freshers XV as a drinking club Edited February 12, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 I'm pretty disappointed that Sexton and Murray won't be getting trounced by France. Murray apparently tweaked a hamstring probably watching a video of Dupont. It will be a sickener for a lot of Ireland supporters that they are starting guys would be lucky to be top ten options for England and New Zealand at 10 and 9. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Yeah so that would make sense if anyone was suggesting picking a player to bring on and kick goals and then get off the pitch. Again, not what's being said and it's odd you won't acknowledge that almost guaranteed effective goal kicking is an important consideration when picking a back given it's fairly clear. As for physicality, again if you assume players from the past by definition wouldn't cope with the physicality of today's game that's just a bit silly. These guys weren't built in labs, the rugby environment they grew up, train and play in is substantially different and you'd have to assume all players came through at the same time. Otherwise you can apply the same criticism to someone like Gordon Brown or Jim Telfer and say they would be nowhere near the current team. Anyway, just a bit of fun Fair doos [emoji106] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.