Rugby Union

[Mark Connolly]

Just now, Snobot said:

How did he have time to change direction? Seems a bit harsh. Game over though you’d expect 

It's because he can see the contact coming and has turned to lead with his shoulder/elbow. If he had stayed front on, he'd have been fine.

He didn't do anything to make a legal tackle or attempt on the ball, so has set himself up

[aDONisSheep]

The tackle laws are absolute horse-shit!

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by aDONisSheep

[aDONisSheep]

That is where we should have a 20 min red. 
 

Edited March 18, 2023 by aDONisSheep

[Mark Connolly]

O'Driscoll absolutely schooling Woodward on the laws there

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Clive embarrassing himself a bit here, whether you like it or not that's a red every day of the week.

[peasy23]

Just now, aDONisSheep said:

That is where we should have a 20 min red at worst.

Agreed. It's very much an accidental collision but gets the same punishment as someone who deliberately targets an opponent's head with a shoulder at a ruck.

[aDONisSheep]

I agree the ref had no option, but the law is shit!  

Edited March 18, 2023 by aDONisSheep

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

For me a red card had to have force from the defending player. Stewart is standing pretty much still with his arm by his side. I don't see why he is responsible for the force due to the irish player diving towards him head first.

[aDONisSheep]

2 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

For me a red card had to have force from the defending player. Stewart is standing pretty much still with his arm by his side. I don't see why he is responsible for the force due to the irish player diving towards him head first.

I agree.  Williams got penalised when Sexton ran head first into him from about a foot.  It’s absolute fvkkin arse!

Edited March 18, 2023 by aDONisSheep

[come on shire]

Bonus point win at the end after being under pressure. Italy fronted up and could've won if they didn't have hands like feet in attack. Great effort today but too many errors and poor discipline. The coaching needs changed after the world cup but Kinghorn was outstanding with a hattrick and after he went to full back when Healy came on. Van der Merwe worked hard but Schoeman was my MOTM. The guy pushed Italians out the road all day like a snowplough.

As for Ireland, they're managing England and have excellent discipline. It'll be an arm wrestle but Ireland should get over the line. Clear red card for Steward. Idiotic lead of the arm giving the ref no choice.

Edited March 18, 2023 by come on shire

[Mark Connolly]

There is no reason for Steward to turn there to brace himself. If he's done it because he's expecting Keenan to kick it, as Wilkinson was trying to claim, then he's still going for a seat because he will hit Keenan late with a no arms challenge.

Nothing he does in that situation is a legal move. He's unlucky to connect with the head, but it was a penalty (and card) waiting to happen regardless

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

There's pretty much nothing wrong with the rules imo, there's very rarely incidents where a genuine mistake is made, and a lot of bad faith "he threw his head at him!" Like the above. The best case for mitigation there is what, that Stewart thought he was going to kick/it's a "rugby incident" (an incredibly ill defined concept which always seems to just be used for special pleasing purposes)? So it's ok to try and charge down a kick  by jumping shoulder first at someone's head?

 

 

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

1 minute ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

There's pretty much nothing wrong with the rules imo, there's very rarely incidents where a genuine mistake is made, and a lot of bad faith "he threw his head at him!" Like the above. The best case for mitigation there is what, that Stewart thought he was going to kick/it's a "rugby incident" (an incredibly ill defined concept which always seems to just be used for special pleasing purposes)? So it's ok to try and charge down a kick  by jumping shoulder first at someone's head?

 

 

Stewart is standing upright, the only way head contact happens is if the attacker lowers his head into the contact. If you want to make the game safer there should be limits onthe way attackers play, safety shouldn't be all on the defender imo.

And I don't think it was a red because there was no force in Stewart's actions.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 minute ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Stewart is standing upright, the only way head contact happens is if the attacker lowers his head into the contact. If you want to make the game safer there should be limits onthe way attackers play, safety shouldn't be all on the defender imo.

And I don't think it was a red because there was no force in Stewart's actions.

Sorry, in that case you're wrong. There is definitely force from steward there, hence why young Mr Keenan is now off having failed a HIA. There should be, and are, limits on how attackers play. For example, chuck a forearm in someone's throat or face and see what happens to you. However, when someone approaches you with the ball and you either attempt to, or do, stop them, it is absolutely the defender's responsibility to ensure the safety of their opponent.

It's also why "well he was wriggling around" won't help you very much if you spear tackle someone onto their head; or (as we used to get pinged for all the time against Biggar) "well he's just chucking himself through the air and I'm standing still" doesn't mean you haven't endangered someone contesting a high ball. So sorry, the ball carrier dipping slightly is not mitigation unless the tackler is at least attempting to change his own body height.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

5 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Sorry, in that case you're wrong. There is definitely force from steward there, hence why young Mr Keenan is now off having failed a HIA. There should be, and are, limits on how attackers play. For example, chuck a forearm in someone's throat or face and see what happens to you. However, when someone approaches you with the ball and you either attempt to, or do, stop them, it is absolutely the defender's responsibility to ensure the safety of their opponent.

It's also why "well he was wriggling around" won't help you very much if you spear tackle someone onto their head; or (as we used to get pinged for all the time against Biggar) "well he's just chucking himself through the air and I'm standing still" doesn't mean you haven't endangered someone contesting a high ball. So sorry, the ball carrier dipping slightly is not mitigation unless the tackler is at least attempting to change his own body height.

All the force is from Keenan running at full speed with his head lowered. That is why he failed the HIA. Even the NFL has rules about players lowering their head and initiating contact. Time for riugby to catch up.

and don't put things in quotes that no one said.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Jim McLean's Ghost

[aDONisSheep]

I'd argue that Keenan ran into Steward probably more than Steward using force on Keenan.

Whether someone comes off worse is not the point.  We don't penalise the runner when the defender puts their head in the spokes, even though the outcome often has consequences.

 

Rugby incident may be slightly ambiguous, but it is a contact sport.

Edited March 18, 2023 by aDONisSheep

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

No high tackle? Boy dragged Watson back into goal around the neck

[Mark Connolly]

That's high from Hansen - he's over the shoulder and round Watson's neck

1 minute ago, aDONisSheep said:

I'd argue that Keenan ran into Stuward probably more than Stuward using force on Keenan.

Whether someone comes off worse is not the point.  We don't penalise the runner when the defender puts their head in the spokes, even though the outcome often has consequences.

 

Rugby incident may be slightly ambiguous, but it is a contact sport.

The main problem for Steward is that he made no attempt to make a legal tackle - he turned his body and led with his elbow and shoulder. If he had even stuck his arm out in attempt to tackle, it would have been far better for him

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

3 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

All the force is from Keenan running at full speed with his head lowered. That is why he failed the HIA. Even the NFL has rules about players lowering their head and initiating contact. Time for riugby to catch up.

and don't put things in quotes that no one said.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but I've watched it again and you're at it if you believe "all the force" is from Keenan. This also, thank goodness, is not the NFL, so I'm not really interested how the sport with even worse head injury history than rugby manages things.

"And I will put whatever I like in quotes thank you very much" 

[Lex]

What a magnificent team Ireland are. Certainly capable of winning the World Cup later this year.