Detournement Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) On 3/2/2019 at 13:17, same_ol_g35 said: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-gray-brothers-gilchrist-or-toolis-theres-none-you-would-class-as-hard-men Jim Telfer interview about Scotland. Harsh but fair in parts. This just seems like Yer Da pish to me. The idea of hard men in rugby is ridiculous now. People are putting in legal hits at every breakdown which would have "hard men" from Telfer's day crawling to the sideline. Who is the hard man in the Irish or Welsh teams? Rugby is a game of discipline now, it's about executing your system and not making errors and not giving away penalties. Where we do suffer is being able to influence refs but that is down to commercial/political reasons not the players. France beat us because our player pool is poor. Telfer should be asking why we don't have more and better players. Edited March 5, 2019 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Detournement said: This just seems like Yer Da pish to me. The idea of hard men in rugby is ridiculous now. People are putting in legal hits at every breakdown which would have "hard men" from Telfer's day crawling to the sideline. Who is the hard man in the Irish or Welsh teams? Rugby is a game of discipline now, it's about executing your system and not making errors and not giving away penalties. Where we do suffer is being able to influence refs but that is down to commercial/political reasons not the players. France beat us because our player pool is poor. Telfer should be asking why we don't have more and better players. because we only have 2 pro teams so only 30 players are starting every week. On SA teams in the Pro 14 the quote I saw was 2 from Bulls, Shark, Lions or possible 2 Currie Cup teams. More SA teams are most likely as they have the players and also can bring in money from TV deals, which at the end of the day any expansion is only about more money for the existing teams 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 No one starts every week. If we have both teams full of good Scottish players then there would be a good case for a third pro team but while we are having to bring in foreign dross to fill the squads and playing duff Scottish qualified players then it's miles away. If you look at the positions we are struggling at LH, Hooker, SH, FH, Wing and FB. Adding a third team at the moment would massively weaken Glasgow and Edinburgh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
same_ol_g35 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Maitland and Harris ruled out for the Wales game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 14 hours ago, Detournement said: No one starts every week. If we have both teams full of good Scottish players then there would be a good case for a third pro team but while we are having to bring in foreign dross to fill the squads and playing duff Scottish qualified players then it's miles away. If you look at the positions we are struggling at LH, Hooker, SH, FH, Wing and FB. Adding a third team at the moment would massively weaken Glasgow and Edinburgh. We are bringing in foreign players as the hope is they will still be there during international weekends when they lose the majority of the starters. Dell is off to London Irish next season as he isn't first choice at Edinburgh and Dunbar has been punted to Newcastle as Glasgow have Johnson, Jones, Grigg, Horne and McDowell at centre. We are struggling at the position above as youngsters aren't getting a chance to play and develop as their is a bottleneck above them and only the exceptional players (Hogg, Grey, Russell, Fagerson) get game time at 19/20, most young players are coming in at 24/25 and hardly having played a game. It was also help Glasgow and Edinburgh if the Scottish internationals were spread around 3 teams so they would be losing 10/12 players rather than 15/18 every international. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Sad to see Maitland and Harris drop-out through injury but not a disaster. Kinghorn can play wing in Maitland's place and we have Finn back to play 10. Therefore, Peter Horne can get back into centre to cover Harris. As for 15 with Hoggy out, you could argue that D'Arcy Graham could get a shot or even Jacko who's been excellent at Glasgow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I think it will be Davy Graham on the wing and Kinghorn at 15. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 2 hours ago, honestly united said: We are bringing in foreign players as the hope is they will still be there during international weekends when they lose the majority of the starters. Dell is off to London Irish next season as he isn't first choice at Edinburgh and Dunbar has been punted to Newcastle as Glasgow have Johnson, Jones, Grigg, Horne and McDowell at centre. We are struggling at the position above as youngsters aren't getting a chance to play and develop as their is a bottleneck above them and only the exceptional players (Hogg, Grey, Russell, Fagerson) get game time at 19/20, most young players are coming in at 24/25 and hardly having played a game. It was also help Glasgow and Edinburgh if the Scottish internationals were spread around 3 teams so they would be losing 10/12 players rather than 15/18 every international. There is no evidence that young players are getting held back though. Any young players at Glasgow and Edinburgh with the potential to be international level players get their chance and the Super Six is starting soon to create a stronger domestic competition to develop players. Where do you think the bottleneck is? You mention centre at Glasgow but Stafford McDowall has been playing a lot recently and Paddy Kelly got a start and didn't show much. You don't see many teenagers or 20 year olds in any top level rugby match, as an example James Ryan was 21 when he made his Leinster debut. It's okay saying it would be better to have a third Pro team to develop players but you have to recognise that it would significantly weaken Glasgow and Edinburgh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Jacobsen Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Scarlets-Ospreys merger isn't happening. Shame they couldn't have decided this after Saturday... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Scarlets-Ospreys merger isn't happening. Shame they couldn't have decided this after Saturday...It's been an utterly shambolic few days for the Welsh, which is nice. The whole thing seems to have stemmed from Ospreys being unsure of their future, both in financial terms and of their tenancy at the Liberty stadium. You would have thought that if any region needed replacing, it would be the consistently shite Dragons, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Detournement said: There is no evidence that young players are getting held back though. Any young players at Glasgow and Edinburgh with the potential to be international level players get their chance and the Super Six is starting soon to create a stronger domestic competition to develop players. Where do you think the bottleneck is? You mention centre at Glasgow but Stafford McDowall has been playing a lot recently and Paddy Kelly got a start and didn't show much. You don't see many teenagers or 20 year olds in any top level rugby match, as an example James Ryan was 21 when he made his Leinster debut. It's okay saying it would be better to have a third Pro team to develop players but you have to recognise that it would significantly weaken Glasgow and Edinburgh. Just as a quick example of players at Glasgow and Edinburgh who should / could be getting more game time as they are in and around the Scotland Squad (not an exhaustive list just my picks) Edinburgh Callum Hunter Hill 22, Scotland u18 & U20 - 2 years at Glasgow (1 game) (7 on loan at London Scottish) then moved to Edinburgh - 10 games in 2 years Lewis Carmichael 23, - Scotland u18 & U20 - 3 season 27 games (and 2 games for Scotland) Rory Sutherland 26, 5 seasons 53 games, (and 3 for Scotland) Chris Dean 25, 5 seasons 66 games Damian Hoyland 25, 5 seasons 48 games (1 Scotland) James Jonhstone 28, 18 games (spent 2012-2017 with the 7's squad) Darcy Graham 21, 18 games over 2 seasons Blair Kinghorn 22, 64 games over 5 seasons (9 Scotland) jamie ritchie 22, 48 games over 5 season for Edinburgh (4 Scotland) Magnus Bradbury is 23 and only played 47 game over 4 seasons, 4 for Scotland Glasgow Grant Stewart 24, 10 games over 2 seasons George Turner 26, 12 games in 5 seasons at Edinburgh, then 18 over 2 seasons at Glasgow plus 5 scotland caps Alex Allan 27, 1 game in a season at Sale, 5 games in 2 seasons at Edinburgh, then 86 games in 5 seasons at Glasgow Jamie Bhatti 25, 23 games in 3 seasons D'arcy Rae 24 - 49 games in 5 seasons Adam Ashe 25, 34 games in 8 season, 8 games for Scotland Matt Fagerson 20, 12 games in 3 seasons, 3 for Scotland Matt Smith 22, 17 games in 4 seasons George Horne, 23 - 36 games in 4 seasons, (15 for London Scottish on Loan) 4 for Scotland Ali Price 25, 42 games in 6 seasons 18 for Scotland Adam Hastings 22, 12 games for Bath, then 19 for Glasgow over 2 seasons Stafford McDowell 21, 5 games for Glasgow over 2 seasons. Rory Hughes 26, 38 games over 6 seasons Also they had the opportunity to set up a proper semi pro league but have instead came up with the abomination of the Super 6 where clubs are supposed to pay players yet are only going to have less than 10 home fixtures Edited March 6, 2019 by honestly united 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 30 minutes ago, peasy23 said: 56 minutes ago, Allan Jacobsen said: Scarlets-Ospreys merger isn't happening. Shame they couldn't have decided this after Saturday... It's been an utterly shambolic few days for the Welsh, which is nice. The whole thing seems to have stemmed from Ospreys being unsure of their future, both in financial terms and of their tenancy at the Liberty stadium. You would have thought that if any region needed replacing, it would be the consistently shite Dragons, Dragons are fully owned by the WRU (after they nearly went bust), Ospreays are part private hence why they are looking to merge with Scarlets (after Cardiff knocked them back) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I'm not too sure about some of your stats there. Matt Fagerson has definitely played more than 9 games for Glasgow. I do see your point but some of them just aren't/weren't good enough. Hunter-Hill has played this season and didn't shine. Grant Stewart has came on massively recently but wasn't good enough last season to be playing. The clubs and the SRU have to spend a lot of time on strength and conditioning before the players are ready. Starting a third Pro team means taking players away from Glasgow and Edinburgh and not just the 3rd/4th choices. It means when the international players are away Glasgow and Edinburgh will have extremely weak teams. It means less money to retain the best Scottish players and sign the likes of Mata and Kebble. It means having a team like Dragons who get hammered all the time and end up with a losing mentality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I'm not too sure about some of your stats there. Matt Fagerson has definitely played more than 9 games for Glasgow. I do see your point but some of them just aren't/weren't good enough. Hunter-Hill has played this season and didn't shine. Grant Stewart has came on massively recently but wasn't good enough last season to be playing. The clubs and the SRU have to spend a lot of time on strength and conditioning before the players are ready. Starting a third Pro team means taking players away from Glasgow and Edinburgh and not just the 3rd/4th choices. It means when the international players are away Glasgow and Edinburgh will have extremely weak teams. It means less money to retain the best Scottish players and sign the likes of Mata and Kebble. It means having a team like Dragons who get hammered all the time and end up with a losing mentality.I would assume if any new team was set up they would get a portion of players, internationals included, from both teams, as this would then lower the burden of losing players and mean both current teams could have smaller squads 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I'm sure Glasgow and Edinburgh fans will be happy to see their best players leave to play in front of two men and a dog in Aberdeen. You would have the same - probably smaller - pool of players available during Test windows only instead of the current struggle of having to strip 46 players they would need to find 69 players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Team for Saturday. Not overly confident in this lot to be honest. It's amazing how centre has gone from a huge strength to an absolutely glaring weakness this year. Edited March 7, 2019 by GAD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy Snake Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I assume Watson is deemed not quite ready to start yet and it's a shame Skinner's missed out, presumably for similar reasons. I've always quite liked Pete Horne & Grigg as a centre combination but at this level, and particularly against Wales, it's far from ideal. Glad to see Ali Price start though and will be interested to see how Graham does. Usually I'm confident in the lead up to a game but I have no idea how this one will go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
same_ol_g35 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Would've liked to have seen Watson start at 7 and that centre partnership gives me the absolute fear as Horne and Grigg weren't very good Vs the French albeit Horne was at 10 for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I reckon there will be a lot of box kicks to Graham. The Welsh wingers are big so it'll be a real test for him. To be honest, I don't really see any area where we have the edge over Wales, apart from at no 10. Previously I'd have taken Seymour over any Welsh winger as well, but not anymore, and the forwards, especially the back row, look outgunned. It's going to need a huge effort and we can't afford to give away any cheap points. I'm hoping for the best, but I think it could be a long afternoon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Is Johnson injured as he has been one of the few bright spots so far. Its all a bit meh to be fair. Also dont see the point in having Hastings on the bench, would have at least had a centre on the bench so we have an option to change things up a bit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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