Freedom Farter Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, sophia said: I heard an interview with a Hamas spokesperson yesterday where they denied responsibility for their collective punishment actions so I think it is safe to say that the truism about the first casualty of war holds. Very clever but its US intelligence conclusions you're mocking there. Edit: To clarify, I think your above comment is referencing the Le Monde artice I commented on a few pages back. If it's not then sorry, I'm not good at reading sarcastic or cryptic stuff. If it is, then my point in sharing the Le Monde article wasn't to absolve Hamas of responsibility for the massacres. Of course they're responsible for what their own military wing does. What the Le Monde article pointed out was that Hamas leadership weren't aware of the scope of the attack their military wing was planning. Unaware isn't the same as not responsible. It was their job to know what was happening or if they were going to give full autonomy to their military wing, to make sure that military wing wasn't manned by child-murdering psychopaths. I thought the intelligence findings were interesting not because they absolved Hamas of blame, they didn't, but because they showed the incompetence of Hamas leaders as well as the diffuse, decentralised nature of the organisation. That same incoherence and disorganisation seems to extend to al-Qassam as well, whose precise objectives to their attack remain unclear. Edited October 28, 2023 by Freedom Farter 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) Strange emotions about this but anyone else feeling abit of guilt that we as humans are pretty much watching genocide and the outcry and action is minimal considering? ETA -I feel a bit silly saying this obviously my personal actions have nothing to do with it but seeing an entire region being carpet bombed is just hard to watch especially when the western world at best are just turning a blind eye to it. Edited October 28, 2023 by gannonball 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 39 minutes ago, gannonball said: Strange emotions about this but anyone else feeling abit of guilt that we as humans are pretty much watching genocide and the outcry and action is minimal considering? ETA -I feel a bit silly saying this obviously my personal actions have nothing to do with it but seeing an entire region being carpet bombed is just hard to watch especially when the western world at best are just turning a blind eye to it. Very little we can do other than excersize our democratic voice either at the ballot box by refusing to vote for either Tories or Labour. Or by going on demos however very little direct action you can take other than boycott Israeli goods made in the occupied Palestinian Territories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyman Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 And that's all you can do is sit back and watch. Pro-palestine marches are being portrayed as being anti-Semitic. Of course there may be a proportion of those participating that are but to right off thousands of people standing against a genocide is mental. The likes of Rachel Riley portray one side of the arguement without leaving any room for contest as people are blocked. I cannot believe for one moment that the IDF, mossad, cia, American government had no knowledge of the attack by hammas. If you go with that then you get into LIHOP/MIHOP conspiracy territory. Do I have a tinfoil hat no. But I am not beyond believing that a nation will sacrifice its own for the "greater good". Is there a level of blackmail from the Israelis to the west? Possibly. They probably have a shit load of dirty laundry on many nations that could be aired. Or, help us or we push one of our many red buttons and let a real humanitarian crisis unfold. In the meantime, they'll let thousands of innocent civilians die. All the while we sit back and watch the news, look at X or Instagram and there's nothing we can do about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 10 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: I think the German thing may be as a result of being keen to not be accused of anti-semitism. It is, and some especially on the left (AntiDs) go so far as to actually assault people of Palestinians descent and/or make life difficult for them to show just how bot antisemitic they are. Scum c***s. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 9 hours ago, Ewanandmoreagain said: What is it ? 3 hours ago, 101 said: Sounds like the ground offensive is starting and the Israeli government talking about it lasting a long time. This should have been avoided at all costs and the countries who voted against the humanitarian corridor being protected really need to give themselves a shake. " second war of independence * ****ING bull**** ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy McJagface Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 30 minutes ago, itzdrk said: It is, and some especially on the left (AntiDs) go so far as to actually assault people of Palestinians descent and/or make life difficult for them to show just how bot antisemitic they are. Scum c***s. Out of curiosity, what does antiD stand for? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 14 minutes ago, Jaggy McJagface said: Out of curiosity, what does antiD stand for? I was about to post the same. Seen it a couple of times recently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 This ad has started popping up on my phone as I read this thread. f**k off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 5 hours ago, Freedom Farter said: Very clever Nope, because it's 'sophia'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 9 hours ago, gannonball said: Strange emotions about this but anyone else feeling abit of guilt that we as humans are pretty much watching genocide and the outcry and action is minimal considering? ETA -I feel a bit silly saying this obviously my personal actions have nothing to do with it but seeing an entire region being carpet bombed is just hard to watch especially when the western world at best are just turning a blind eye to it. For me, it's the fact that some people think holding the opinion I have about what Israel is doing makes me scum. I just can't get me head round it. I use the fact I can't do anything about it (or any other upsetting world event) as a coping mechanism - it would be happening even if i wasn't here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 8 hours ago, Jaggy McJagface said: Out of curiosity, what does antiD stand for? AntiDeutsch Quote https://novaramedia.com/2022/06/13/germany-is-projecting-its-holocaust-guilt-onto-palestinians/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 I expect Sophia was referring to the BBC interview where the deputy foreign minister of Hamas ended the interview when pressed on killing civilians. He was insisting there was no command given and no intention to kill them. Which speaks to FreedomFarter's point that Hamas is quite a disparate organisation with the political leadership not actually in control. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Bridge Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Bomb ra lot eh thum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Trogdor said: I expect Sophia was referring to the BBC interview where the deputy foreign minister of Hamas ended the interview when pressed on killing civilians. He was insisting there was no command given and no intention to kill them. Which speaks to FreedomFarter's point that Hamas is quite a disparate organisation with the political leadership not actually in control. You're right, it'll be that aborted BBC interview that was being referenced not my comment. Apologies @sophia for my unnecessary defensive reply above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 It’s interesting that whilst the MSM are only to happy to quote Israeli politicians and others about how Hamas want to obliterate Israel they offer no counterpoint. They could, for example, highlight Bezalel Smotrich who is a minister in Netanyahu’s government. He lives in a settlement in the West Bank deemed illegal under international law and is a racist homophobe who refuses to recognise the legitimacy of the Palestinian people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezalel_Smotrich Yet there is no attempt by the media to highlight this extremism or acknowledge their role in the potential genocide that is unfolding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, greyman said: And that's all you can do is sit back and watch. Pro-palestine marches are being portrayed as being anti-Semitic. Of course there may be a proportion of those participating that are but to right off thousands of people standing against a genocide is mental. The likes of Rachel Riley portray one side of the arguement without leaving any room for contest as people are blocked........ ........ All the while we sit back and watch the news, look at X or Instagram and there's nothing we can do about it. I've written to my local MP, requesting that he demand an Immediate, and full ceasefire. Each one of us has a vote, and your MP /MSP wants that vote next time around. Which in the case of Westminster, is not very far away. . I kept it simple for the sake of clarity. I also post on a couple of other forums to express my views. Edited October 29, 2023 by beefybake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 19 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Neither did the WHO. Are you sure? I googled that just now and what I found suggested the WHO use the Gazan Health Ministry figures and believe them to be largely accurate. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-report-intl/index.html Minute-to-minute refers to the need for constant updating due to the sheer frequency of deaths, surely difficult to keep up with. Doctors and other medical workers are witnessing and reporting these deaths. You'd expect them to whistleblow if they noticed inaccurate figures (and they would notice). So it'd take a grand conspiracy of all these doctors and medical workers for false death counts to be put out. I think Biden did a lot of damage with that remark. It's maybe telling his usual media backers have criticised him over it, MSNBC published this opinion https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-gaza-palestinian-deaths-hamas-rcna122407 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Israel now saying a hospital treating 400 patients must be ‘evacuated’. Barbaric. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 9 hours ago, Trogdor said: I expect Sophia was referring to the BBC interview where the deputy foreign minister of Hamas ended the interview when pressed on killing civilians. He was insisting there was no command given and no intention to kill them. Which speaks to FreedomFarter's point that Hamas is quite a disparate organisation with the political leadership not actually in control. I was and in a spectacularly beige post I was simply reinforcing the point already made that political entities don't necessarily share statements that are wholly based in truth. That it attracted rage from some quarters is of interest only in the context of the prevailing culture here. 7 hours ago, Freedom Farter said: You're right, it'll be that aborted BBC interview that was being referenced not my comment. Apologies @sophia for my unnecessary defensive reply above. Accepted If I wanted to be contentious I'd have made the observation that the attitude of the Hamas rep was a match for the equally ludicrous aggressive stances taken by a stream of Israeli interviewees. Further, if his point is to be accepted and they had no control over murderous mobs, that is very weak position for them to be in. This is not at all absolving or even beginning to defend the calumnies now being visited upon fellow humans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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