itzdrk Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) I see the PR machine has moved on under the weight of public opinion and they are now referencing 'innocent Palestinians' but they are using this as a reason for more war (and killing of them) because "they are victims of Hamas as well". How do folk fall for this shit. Edited October 31, 2023 by itzdrk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 42 minutes ago, Empty It said: Including genocide now apparently. It’s important to realise what’s happening. Even in the past ‘genocide’ would have been seen as hyperbole. That is not the case any more, it is likely that this is/will be unfolding over the coming days and weeks. What is happening and it’s intended outcome is the dictionary definition of genocide. Demanding a hospital be cleared when patients include terminally I’ll people and babies in incubators is part of it. Denying people shelter, sanitation, food and water is part of it. Not all those killed will die from a bullet or a bomb, there’s every likelihood that lack of food or medical care people suffering from a water borne disease will be a bigger cause. All this is unfolding with the acquiescence of our elected politicians. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 20 minutes ago, btb said: It's always been the policy of the Israeli right wing that the Holocaust gives them the right to do anything short of genocide in response to being attacked, they've tended to tone their rhetoric down a bit for international audiences, the latest action shows the current governing coalition going into full Millwall mode. @Ziggy Sobotka thinks it's a mistake but that's only so if the US thinks so. The Anglosphere elites and media are generally on board regardless of what Israel does. It's a lot easier for them to do this if they can portray Israel as a 'western liberal democracy' and a lot harder if the Israeli government are openly talking about ethnic cleansing and final solutions. I don't think calling for defunding and branding the UN and its Secretary General massive antisemites for asking them to turn the dial down slightly when it comes to collapsing city blocks on top of civilians is a particularly wise move either as it erodes both support for Israel in the rest of the world and undermines (perhaps fatally, we'll see) American/Western authority when it comes to other disputes or conflicts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Stage 2 of Hamas brilliant plan in operation Get annihilated -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 24 minutes ago, Ziggy Sobotka said: The Anglosphere elites and media are generally on board regardless of what Israel does. It's a lot easier for them to do this if they can portray Israel as a 'western liberal democracy' and a lot harder if the Israeli government are openly talking about ethnic cleansing and final solutions. I don't think calling for defunding and branding the UN and its Secretary General massive antisemites for asking them to turn the dial down slightly when it comes to collapsing city blocks on top of civilians is a particularly wise move either as it erodes both support for Israel in the rest of the world and undermines (perhaps fatally, we'll see) American/Western authority when it comes to other disputes or conflicts. All fair points but I don't see the US and especially the Republican Party acting as an anchor on Israel's current military strategy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, itzdrk said: I see the PR machine has moved on under the weight of public opinion and they are now referencing 'innocent Palestinians' but they are using this as a reason for more war (and killing of them) because "they are victims of Hamas as well". How do folk fall for this shit. I caught some sky news on you tube earlier and the Israel ambassador was basically saying Hamas are using the population as human shields so some collateral damage to the population is not the IDF rockets fault. One minute he says Hamas are armed to the teeth then saying the people of Gaza need to tell Hamas to bolt and just leave the city even though there are no same routes out. He was also going on about the baby beheading stuff. Was this ever proved? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, dirty dingus said: I caught some sky news on you tube earlier and the Israel ambassador was basically saying Hamas are using the population as human shields so some collateral damage to the population is not the IDF rockets fault. One minute he says Hamas are armed to the teeth then saying the people of Gaza need to tell Hamas to bolt and just leave the city even though there are no same routes out. He was also going on about the baby beheading stuff. Was this ever proved? Its clear that the Hamas attack was horrific, but every diplomat/politician representing Israel in the last few days doesnt want to answer questions and are just coming across like some screeching mentalists off a crazed Facebook page. Regardless of the truths and lies of this conflict, Israel are losing the PR war all by themselves................... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 32 minutes ago, btb said: All fair points but I don't see the US and especially the Republican Party acting as an anchor on Israel's current military strategy. Perhaps not, it certainly won't bother the isolationist wing of the Republican party and the comments would probably be applauded under a Trump admin, but these transnational or supranational organisations and their legitimacy are important to US liberals. It's also a lot harder to be taken seriously on the subject of the 'looming spectre of fascism' under Trump and the Republicans if you're very publicly giving cuddles to similar abroad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy McJagface Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Ziggy Sobotka said: Their PR is woeful, absolute clownshoe stuff. With all the resources they put into cleaning up their image, you’d assume they’d at least be decent at it by now. They are complete crackpots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Wonder how that's changed now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy McJagface Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 40 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: Wonder how that's changed now? Interestingly, the Scottish sub sample of this was at 30% Palestine and only 11% Israel iirc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said: Wonder how that's changed now? It would be illuminating if they included a ‘don’t care’ option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: It would be illuminating if they included a ‘don’t care’ option. Probably covered by "don't know" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 41 minutes ago, Jaggy McJagface said: Interestingly, the Scottish sub sample of this was at 30% Palestine and only 11% Israel iirc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane of Cawdor Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, dirty dingus said: I caught some sky news on you tube earlier and the Israel ambassador was basically saying Hamas are using the population as human shields so some collateral damage to the population is not the IDF rockets fault. One minute he says Hamas are armed to the teeth then saying the people of Gaza need to tell Hamas to bolt and just leave the city even though there are no same routes out. He was also going on about the baby beheading stuff. Was this ever proved? I think the claim was even worse than that. Supposedly the baby was first cut from the womb. I think you have to take the ambassador's word for that, or ask for the evidence, and nobody would want to see that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 From the River to the Sea - Back in the forties some Israelis wanted to continue conquering to the River but David Ben Gurion did not allow it. A bit of " restraint " on his part 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 12 minutes ago, Thane of Cawdor said: I think the claim was even worse than that. Supposedly the baby was first cut from the womb. I think you have to take the ambassador's word for that, or ask for the evidence, and nobody would want to see that. We don’t need evidence. We only need evidence when it’s the Palestinian side and even then we don’t believe them. Using ‘we’ in a facetious sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Tragic events on the Holy Land. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 On 30/10/2023 at 14:03, Freedom Farter said: Palestinian-American activist talking about the distance between people and their governments as well as the powerlessness of international law. I don't think international law is powerless. It's just very very partial. There's no significant power behind the Palestinian cause and plenty behind Israel. Israel's actions are being justified in part by an appeal to international law and its ability to do what it wants is protected by that law. International law isn't primarily an instrument of justice, it's an instrument of power. Like all law. The justice bit just gets tagged on to generate consent. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 That’ll be another accidental Hamas air strike, I assume. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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