Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran)

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 14/11/2023 at 14:12, LongTimeLurker said:

About 20% of Israel's citizens are Palestinian Arab and their treatment overall is actually quite reasonable. A big part of the problem is the West (mainly the Americans) allowing Israel to get away for so long with what happens in Gaza and the West Bank so they get to have a de facto one state solution that suits them without extending the overall fairly reasonable treatment of Israeli Arabs to all of what used to be Palestine pre-1948 because that would threaten the Jewish electoral majority.

There needs to be a serious plan from the West to enforce an equitable two state solution by implementing the sort of sanctions on Israel that Russia is currently under so Israel reverts back to its 1967 borders or what we are seeing now is only the foothills of what is to come. Problem is a sizable portion of the US electorate sincerely believes that something something all the Jews must return to Israel something something Battle of Armageddon something something Rapture.

I read somewhere that the 20 per cent Palestinian Arab population is growing more rapidly than the remaining 80 per cent population which is a concern to the latter . Ha , ha 

[Freedom Farter]

It's a welcome change when someone who actually knows what they're talking about is interviewed

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, Ewanandmoreagain said:

I read somewhere that the 20 per cent Palestinian Arab population is growing more rapidly than the remaining 80 per cent population which is a concern to the latter . Ha , ha 

The biggest issue Israel has with population groups is the Ultra Orthodox (haredim) population skyrocketing, at 13%, and growing 4% per year. They mostly don't work, living off government stipends to study the torah, their schools barely teach math or English and such, and they are exempted from military service too. 

[MazzyStar]

7 minutes ago, TxRover said:

The biggest issue Israel has with population groups is the Ultra Orthodox (haredim) population skyrocketing, at 13%, and growing 4% per year. They mostly don't work, living off government stipends to study the torah, their schools barely teach math or English and such, and they are exempted from military service too. 

The current Israeli government won’t view that as a problem. 

[TxRover]

Just now, MazzyStar said:

The current Israeli government won’t view that as a problem. 

Correct, and why I said issue...its a design, not a defect.

[BFTD]

I know we see it all the time here with huge disasters in other countries yielding "BRITON DEAD IN JIBROVIAN EARTHQUAKE" headlines, but it's bizarre seeing detailed stories about a single named Israeli found dead without mention of the exponentially larger number of Palestinian corpses that will have been found on the same day.

[Freedom Farter]

4 hours ago, BFTD said:

I know we see it all the time here with huge disasters in other countries yielding "BRITON DEAD IN JIBROVIAN EARTHQUAKE" headlines, but it's bizarre seeing detailed stories about a single named Israeli found dead without mention of the exponentially larger number of Palestinian corpses that will have been found on the same day.

Its possibly misleading folk too. Some UK folk seem to think the aim of the Israeli offensive is to retrieve the Israeli hostages from Gaza. Therefore, each new report of a hostage having died strengthens those folk's support for the offensive. Yet that's not the aim of the offensive at all. In that clip I linked above, Daniel Levy explained how Hamas three weeks ago offered to begin releasing the Israeli civilian hostages in exchange for a ceasefire and the release of Palestinian women and children held by Israel. That was rejected by Israel. As Levy said, "...its either the military mission, or its the prisoner release".  There's also that Israeli military doctrine is going to kill a lot of the hostages anyway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine).

Edited November 17, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[Salt n Vinegar]

On 15/11/2023 at 20:49, TxRover said:

The biggest issue Israel has with population groups is the Ultra Orthodox (haredim) population skyrocketing, at 13%, and growing 4% per year. They mostly don't work, living off government stipends to study the torah, their schools barely teach math or English and such, and they are exempted from military service too. 

What Israel needs to deal with that is a right wing Tory, Braverman-style Government.

What? I beg your pardon? Folk living off the state tit, not working, no intention of working, all while studying useless subjects? The British Tories wouldn't put up with that sort of stuff!  Can you imagine the Mainly Dail/ Express/ Torygraph front pages?

 

[TxRover]

3 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

What Israel needs to deal with that is a right wing Tory, Braverman-style Government.

What? I beg your pardon? Folk living off the state tit, not working, no intention of working, all while studying useless subjects? The British Tories wouldn't put up with that sort of stuff!  Can you imagine the Mainly Dail/ Express/ Torygraph front pages?

 

Nah, they’d be overjoyed to provide a State stipend for young ladies and gentlemen to sit around and read the Telegraph and the Express…you might even get a scheme for free distribution of the Daily Heil, er, Mail to lower income homes. Once a week meetings with a lecturer on what the Tory manifesto really means, etc. After 10 years, they’ll be offered a lucrative entry position in a privatized ex-nationalized company and evaluated to see if the treatment “took”…if it did, they can work up to being local councilors. They could maintain the supply of positions by randomly nationalizing any business where the Unions are gaining power, for the best of the country, before reprivatizing them after a few years by selling to some rich Tory peers.

[SweeperDee]

Israel levelled a hospital they were convinced Hamas had an operations centre underneath and but they “fled” before they raided the place. The only evidence they have is a large hole in a bunch of rubble. Murdering b*****ds.

[Freedom Farter]

17 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

Israel levelled a hospital they were convinced Hamas had an operations centre underneath and but they “fled” before they raided the place. The only evidence they have is a large hole in a bunch of rubble. Murdering b*****ds.

I don't think they levelled it, its still standing, but they did bomb the area all around it. They also cut the electricity to it, killing neonates. Snipers fired into the hospital hitting patients (https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/voice-gazas-al-shifa-hospital-we-are-alone-now-no-one-hears-us). Who the snipers were is unclear but the IDF's intention to empty the hospital makes them more likely culprits than Gazan militants.

This from BBC verify is good:

 

Also this twitter thread from a New York Times reporter: https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1724857866106949908 (or it can be read via nitter: https://nitter.net/AricToler/status/1724857866106949908#m). He shows the photos of the laddered shaft that's clearly just a standard electrical storage space for the building and not the entrance to a terrorists' lair. He also shows how the IDF gave media a photo of a box of confiscated dates (yes, the food). Terrorist dates.

 

So far, this seems a fair take:

It's possible the IDF will still find the terrorist base under the hospital as promised. It's also possible that was always just a ruse for daft foreign media. The true motive may've been to empty a building which was sheltering civilians who Israel want moved south.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[Salvo Montalbano]

Did anyone see the interview on MSNBC (I think) between Mehdi Hasan and yon Australian spokesman for Netanyahu, Mark Regev? It's utterly baffling for me that a western democracy is somehow a less credible source than a proscribed terrorist organisation, yet here we are.

Note: Link is to X, formerly known as Twitter.

[MazzyStar]

5 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Did anyone see the interview on MSNBC (I think) between Mehdi Hasan and yon Australian spokesman for Netanyahu, Mark Regev? It's utterly baffling for me that a western democracy is somehow a less credible source than a proscribed terrorist organisation, yet here we are.

Note: Link is to X, formerly known as Twitter.

Israel isn’t a democracy. 

[s_dog]

8 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

It's possible the IDF will still find the terrorist base under the hospital as promised. It's also possible that was always just a ruse for daft foreign media. The true motive may've been to empty a building which was sheltering civilians rather than forcing them to flee south.

They're  now telling everyone to evacuate the hospital (except the Israeli's say they're helping provide a safe route out after a request from a hospital director), where they are supposed to safely evacuate to is anyone's guess. Especially as they're now telling everyone to leave the southern city of Khan Younis, where many went after being told to leave the north. Now they're being told to move to the West of the city, and the Israeli's are "pretty sure that they won’t have to move again".

I really don't understand how many in the West are able to stand by and not condemn this. Apart from the SNP & the Green's in the UK, every other party seems quite happy to allow Israel to do whatever they want. FFS even the BBC are starting to question what's going on in this hospital.

Edited November 18, 2023 by s_dog

[BillyAnchor]

This is long but I enjoyed it.

 

 

[Lurkst]

10 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

 

This from BBC verify is good:

 

 

 

Ros Atkins is a guid c**t

[Freedom Farter]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67462615

Israeli strike on a UN school in northern Gaza today. Like the hospitals, it was a communal building where civilians had gathered hoping to be safe. They weren't.

The video clip in that article tells a story. Gazans leaving on foot with just a bag of belongings while Israeli bulldozers and tanks drive past behind them. 

An estimated 2000 Gazan corpses lie under the rubble. 

[Leith Green]

Eylon Levy - Israel Govt Spokesman - was on Radio 4 just now.

Absolute swivel eyed lunacy yet again - made to look an absolute fool by the interviewer, tried to refuse to acknowledge that the issues on the West Bank were perpetrated by Israel.

The really need some people with vaguely level heads, as the people they trot out for the worlds media are making them look worse by the day.

[Freedom Farter]

I linked this yesterday but deleted my comment because I became unsure it was genuine. It's hard to believe that it is. I've since read many Israelis on Twitter verifying it, though. Israel's state broadcaster had it published on their website but has now removed it.

[Dunning1874]

Giora Eiland, a retired IDF General and former head of Israel's National Security Council, arguing that civilian deaths are not only inevitable but desirable and Israeli should be actively trying to create a deeper humanitarian crisis, because they're all Hamas. He explicitly says 'the entire Gaza population".

This stuff is absolutely mainstream in Israeli politics and society.