Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran/Lebanon)

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

There used to be a children's song called Archibald king of the jews... sold his wife for a pair of shoes.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

5 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

About 20% of Israel's citizens are Palestinian Arab and their treatment overall is actually quite reasonable. A big part of the problem is the West (mainly the Americans) allowing Israel to get away for so long with what happens in Gaza and the West Bank so they get to have a de facto one state solution that suits them without extending the overall fairly reasonable treatment of Israeli Arabs to all of what used to be Palestine pre-1948 because that would threaten the Jewish electoral majority.

There needs to be a serious plan from the West to enforce an equitable two state solution by implementing the sort of sanctions on Israel that Russia is currently under so Israel reverts back to its 1967 borders or what we are seeing now is only the foothills of what is to come. Problem is a sizable portion of the US electorate sincerely believes that something something all the Jews must return to Israel something something Battle of Armageddon something something Rapture.

Oslo 1 & 2 was the death of the 2-state solution.

They compounded the settlers issue because of the one-sided nature of the security arrangements.  They were hailed at the time as precursors to a 2 state solution but the fact is that both Oslo accords failed to deal with the core issues that collectively define the Israeli-Palestinian conflict such as borders, Palestinian refugees, and the status of Jerusalem.

It hasn't created a single Palestinian state but the Gaza Strip and multiple disconnected Palestinian settlements where access is controlled by 600 plus Israeli Defence Force checkpoints.

Edited November 14, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh

[DeeTillEhDeh]

3 hours ago, Cosmic Joe said:

Has anyone actually witnessed anti-semitism either in person, or on social media? 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but compared to islamophobia (which seems to be rife), it seems to be a miniscule problem here. 

 

 

One poster banned from here was an antisemite - and criticised as such by anti-zionists on this forum.

Edited November 14, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh

[LongTimeLurker]

10 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

There used to be a children's song called Archibald king of the jews... sold his wife for a pair of shoes.

Can remember a joke from primary school about how you fit six million Jews into an Austin Mini. Won't provide the punchline because it was extremely crass.

[Munoz]

52 minutes ago, BFTD said:

That was Wisbit (@Munoz now, I believe), and he got his arse felt pretty sharpish for referring to the execution of 6 million Jews as the "HoloHoax".

It was all fun and games when he was denying that gravity existed, but how quickly the laughter turns to tears.

Not me.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, Munoz said:

Not me.

You weren't Wisbit?

[Freedom Farter]

26 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Oslo 1 & 2 was the death of the 2-state solution.

They compounded the settlers issue because of the one-sided nature of the security arrangements.  They were hailed at the time as precursors to a 2 state solution but the fact is that both Oslo accords failed to deal with the core issues that collectively define the Israeli-Palestinian conflict such as borders, Palestinian refugees, and the status of Jerusalem.

It hasn't created a single Palestinian state but the Gaza Strip and multiple disconnected Palestinian settlements where access is controlled by 600 plus Israeli Defence Force checkpoints.

To add to that, an often overlooked part of the Oslo Accords was the economic aspect. The Paris Protocol was supposed to ease the trade restrictions on the occupied Palestinians, to guarantee the free movement of goods and workers between Gaza and West Bank. That didn't happen and never at any point did Israel ease up on its economic stranglehold.

Israel's blockade of Gaza was actually began to prevent Gazans profiting from their natural gas reserves:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_the_Gaza_Strip

Edited November 14, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[Munoz]

1 minute ago, BFTD said:

You weren't Wisbit?

I certainly wasn't. 

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, Munoz said:

I certainly wasn't. 

Well then, you have my apologies.

I wonder why people seem to think you were?

[tongue_tied_danny]

3 hours ago, Cosmic Joe said:

Has anyone actually witnessed anti-semitism either in person, or on social media? 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but compared to islamophobia (which seems to be rife), it seems to be a miniscule problem here. 

 

 

I've heard plenty of anti semitic remarks over the years... along with ignorant shite like trying to justify the holocaust because of the  Arab/Israeli conflict.

I've never actually witnessed an anti -semitic attack on a Jewish person, possibly because there are so few in Scotland.

I have witnessed direct verbal attacks on Asian people though.

[Wee-Bey]

4 hours ago, Cosmic Joe said:

Has anyone actually witnessed anti-semitism either in person, or on social media? 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but compared to islamophobia (which seems to be rife), it seems to be a miniscule problem here. 

 

 

My wife is from a Jewish family (although neither her or her parents identity as such) and had a typical 'jewish' surname before we married.

She  experienced comments and so on, but never anything explicitly threatening or violent. 

[BFTD]

6 minutes ago, tongue_tied_danny said:

I've heard plenty of anti semitic remarks over the years... along with ignorant shite like trying to justify the holocaust because of the  Arab/Israeli conflict.

I've never actually witnessed an anti -semitic attack on a Jewish person, possibly because there are so few in Scotland.

I have witnessed direct verbal attacks on Asian people though.

I've always had the impression that people from South Asia have it worst in the UK - I saw plenty of casual physical and verbal abuse of people considered "Pakis" when I was growing up, and the stuff regularly said about them in private was horrific. Either that changed when I moved permanently to Scotland, or it's nothing like as bad here.

It's definitely getting worse, though. I've seen a few open displays of racism recently, including a couple of hammered jakes who tried to follow me a few days ago because I was a Paki and I needed to go home, which was bizarre.

[Shotgun]

A Jewish guy had a Star of David scratched onto the door of his car a couple of days ago, here in Colorado. It was in Boulder, where many inhabitants lean to the left, politically. Perhaps not too surprising then, that the general consensus among the Facebook Brain Trust commenters was that it MUST have been one of those terrorist loving liberals wot done it.

[Freedom Farter]

France has a recent history of deadly antisemitism. I always remember the case of Ilan Halimi. A young man who was abducted, tortured and eventually murdered in 2006 by a gang who'd originally planned to extort him. They'd targeted him due to their belief that all Jews are wealthy. Like most French Jews, Halimi was sephardi. When they moved to France, sephardi Jews lived in the banlieues among their fellow Maghrebis (Muslim Arabs and Berbers) as well as West Africans and Afro-Caribbeans. The 1995 film La Haine shows the solidarity among these immigrant groups at the time (the Jewish protagonist in that film is actually ashkenazi Polish not sephardi). Things then changed at the turn of the century. Global geopolitical events contributed to some French Muslims taking up an Islamic chauvinist identity which came complete with antisemitism. Although in Ilan Halimi's case, the belief he must've been wealthy came from traditional Christian European antisemitic stereotypes. French Sephardi Jews who've been victims (there's more besides Halimi) actually had the same humble origins as their attackers and it was that shared socio-economic background which made them accessible.

The "wealthy Jew" stereotype in Europe was a particularly inaccurate one. You got some wealthy Jews who happened to be working in money lending right as capitalism took off so hit the jackpot. For most Jews, though, they were poorer than your average European. Preceding the Holocaust era, Jews were the second poorest ethnic group in Europe, ahead of only the Roma (now there's a coincidence). This was especially true in central and eastern Europe, where pogroms and enforced ghettoisation had impoverished them.

Going back to France, a Jewish woman in Lyon was stabbed earlier this month after answering her front door. A swastika was found carved on the door, presumably by her attacker. So certainly an antisemitic attempted murder. The perpetrator hasn't been caught yet. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Freedom Farter

[Freedom Farter]

From the report:

A terrorist granny and her terrorist granddaughters in their terrorist car in Lebanon, driving away from the direction of Israel. 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 14/11/2023 at 08:54, Granny Danger said:

UN mourns the deaths of more than 100 aid workers in Gaza, the highest number killed in any other conflict in its history

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/14/middleeast/united-nations-staff-deaths-gaza-intl-hnk/index.html

What’s happening here is because the western powers have ignored what has happened to the Palestinians in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank for years.

They refuse to acknowledge the apartheid system of government that allows a Jew with no connection to Israel to settle there with rights whereas a non-Jew who has lived there for years is denied the same rights.

Consecutive Israeli governments have been given a free pass in a manner that no other country has.  Free from criticism and protected by the U.S.A. at the U.N. Security Council on countless occasions when they have committed acts that any other country would be censured for.

Whatever happens in the weeks and months ahead there will be no respite for Palestinians or Israelis until a political solution is found and that looks as far away today than it ever has.

Nothing will be achieved without a U.S. President who genuinely believes that the Palestinians have rights and that’s not Biden or any other likely holder of that office.

 

The Jewish terrorists murdered a U.N. peace envoy, and bodyguard , back in the 1940s

They got away with it

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 14/11/2023 at 14:12, LongTimeLurker said:

About 20% of Israel's citizens are Palestinian Arab and their treatment overall is actually quite reasonable. A big part of the problem is the West (mainly the Americans) allowing Israel to get away for so long with what happens in Gaza and the West Bank so they get to have a de facto one state solution that suits them without extending the overall fairly reasonable treatment of Israeli Arabs to all of what used to be Palestine pre-1948 because that would threaten the Jewish electoral majority.

There needs to be a serious plan from the West to enforce an equitable two state solution by implementing the sort of sanctions on Israel that Russia is currently under so Israel reverts back to its 1967 borders or what we are seeing now is only the foothills of what is to come. Problem is a sizable portion of the US electorate sincerely believes that something something all the Jews must return to Israel something something Battle of Armageddon something something Rapture.

I read somewhere that the 20 per cent Palestinian Arab population is growing more rapidly than the remaining 80 per cent population which is a concern to the latter . Ha , ha 

[Freedom Farter]

It's a welcome change when someone who actually knows what they're talking about is interviewed

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, Ewanandmoreagain said:

I read somewhere that the 20 per cent Palestinian Arab population is growing more rapidly than the remaining 80 per cent population which is a concern to the latter . Ha , ha 

The biggest issue Israel has with population groups is the Ultra Orthodox (haredim) population skyrocketing, at 13%, and growing 4% per year. They mostly don't work, living off government stipends to study the torah, their schools barely teach math or English and such, and they are exempted from military service too. 

[MazzyStar]

7 minutes ago, TxRover said:

The biggest issue Israel has with population groups is the Ultra Orthodox (haredim) population skyrocketing, at 13%, and growing 4% per year. They mostly don't work, living off government stipends to study the torah, their schools barely teach math or English and such, and they are exempted from military service too. 

The current Israeli government won’t view that as a problem.