Billy Jean King Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 9 minutes ago, Leith Green said: Posted without comment................... 11:53 Sunak adds that he knows Israel is "taking every precaution to avoid harming civilians in direct contrast to the terrorists of Hamas which seek to put civilians in harm's way". 12:14 Over 3,700 people killed in Gaza - health officials We've had some updated figures from the health ministry in Gaza, who say at least 3,785 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October. Among those killed, 1,524 were children, 1,000 were women, and 120 were elderly, they say. A total of 12,493 have been injured, the health officials added. I'd hate to see them being indiscriminate ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy McJagface Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, beefybake said: The subject of my comment was a recording. And it was being examined by two experts, Palestinian ( I think ). Not Hamas. They also referred to the horizontal arc of the missile that air exploded shortly before, as being not equating to it landing on the hospital. As I recall, the Ch4 news segment ended with saying that the recording needed independent investigation. Me ? It seems odd that if either Hamas or Islamic Juhad had access to something that could cause all that damage, they would have used it long ago, rather than the rockets into Israel that they have typically used which have caused relatively minor damage to buildings, and very, very occasionally a handful of deaths. Er, yes, I have heard of the fog of war. I’m not disagreeing with you. The fact the Israelis are clearly lying about the recording is very suspicious. My point is that Israel have previous for lying about things like this and are certainly lying about certain aspects now. They have shown that they certainly don’t mind bombing refugee convoys so I’m not meaning this to come across as a defence of the IDF. On the other hand, many independent weapons experts seem to think that the crater and surrounding damage isn’t typical of an Israeli air strike and is more likely to be a faulty missile, although most concede it’s hard to say for certain. The fog of war means that we probably won’t know with absolute certainty what happened in this particular instance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: Why are Hamas rockets never so effective and accurate when attacking Israel? Because it 1) wasn’t accurate, it hit a parking lot and 2) because parking lots are filed with cars that contain lots of explosive and flammable bits? Of course, that’s IF it was a misplaced rocket…still unclear, but the only data that comes from both sides and is confirmed by third party pictures is 1) a parking lot, of a hospital, was hit, not the hospital itself, and 2) a small crater was left. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 I mistakenly selected back to the first page of this thread instead of 'previous' and on reading a lot of the posts there from 2008 it's obvious that f**k all has changed, never mind for the better, in the 15 years since. It's a deadly and depressing situation but what gives me a glimmer of hope is that at my age I've seen seemingly intractable issues eventually alter - Vietnam, the Berlin Wall and (relative) peace in Northern Ireland being the obvious examples. For the Israel/Palestine war to end though, a starting point must be an end to the unqualified support of Israel routinely parroted by the US, the UK and others, and the eventual establishment of a just settlement in the region. It would be interesting to gauge Israeli public opinion on that, as opposed to their Government's narrative. And all of it accompanied by the laying down of Palestinian arms. If only it were that easy. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 35 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: I mistakenly selected back to the first page of this thread instead of 'previous' and on reading a lot of the posts there from 2008 it's obvious that f**k all has changed, never mind for the better, in the 15 years since. It's a deadly and depressing situation but what gives me a glimmer of hope is that at my age I've seen seemingly intractable issues eventually alter - Vietnam, the Berlin Wall and (relative) peace in Northern Ireland being the obvious examples. For the Israel/Palestine war to end though, a starting point must be an end to the unqualified support of Israel routinely parroted by the US, the UK and others, and the eventual establishment of a just settlement in the region. It would be interesting to gauge Israeli public opinion on that, as opposed to their Government's narrative. And all of it accompanied by the laying down of Palestinian arms. If only it were that easy. I assume the majority of Israel’s support the present approach. Sad though that might be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Billy Jean King said: "This is the worlds darkest hour". Absolutely mental rhetoric from the Israeli PM there. When he talked about the U.K. facing Hitler alone eighty years ago he forgot to mention around that time the Jewish terrorists murdering British service people 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Don’t know how senior this guy is but it’s a bold and principled move. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/19/politics/state-department-official-resigns-israel-gaza/index.html State department official resigns. Decades of the same approach have shown that security for peace leads to neither security, nor to peace. The fact is, blind support for one side is destructive in the long term to the interests of the people on both sides.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: I mistakenly selected back to the first page of this thread instead of 'previous' and on reading a lot of the posts there from 2008 it's obvious that f**k all has changed, never mind for the better, in the 15 years since. It's a deadly and depressing situation but what gives me a glimmer of hope is that at my age I've seen seemingly intractable issues eventually alter - Vietnam, the Berlin Wall and (relative) peace in Northern Ireland being the obvious examples. For the Israel/Palestine war to end though, a starting point must be an end to the unqualified support of Israel routinely parroted by the US, the UK and others, and the eventual establishment of a just settlement in the region. It would be interesting to gauge Israeli public opinion on that, as opposed to their Government's narrative. And all of it accompanied by the laying down of Palestinian arms. If only it were that easy. Had a quick look back when I read your post and found this. I was no fan of Ron Paul but he's spot on here. From 2009 I think. Edited October 19, 2023 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Just catching up on this thread. I know we're all concerned with thousands of civilians being murdered and the potential of World War III kicking off IRL, but one of the stories flying under the radar appears to be the plight of people who really don't enjoy this forum, and are ruthlessly bombarded with red dots by terrorists from the dreaded P&B administration. Been a while since we've had a fundraiser, but perhaps it's needed to return them to their natural homeland of the Politics board and enable the purchase of a very small violin in their memory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: I mistakenly selected back to the first page of this thread instead of 'previous' and on reading a lot of the posts there from 2008 it's obvious that f**k all has changed, never mind for the better, in the 15 years since. Disagree. The thread starter has fucked off, which is a far better position than it was in 2008. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 55 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Don’t know how senior this guy is but it’s a bold and principled move. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/19/politics/state-department-official-resigns-israel-gaza/index.html State department official resigns. Decades of the same approach have shown that security for peace leads to neither security, nor to peace. The fact is, blind support for one side is destructive in the long term to the interests of the people on both sides.” Well, it's a shaft of light at a dark time and fair play to him because it's a brave position to take. Added to welshbairn's post above maybe we're going to need everyone whose surname is Paul to get involved - that includes you Ru... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Doesn't matter. Israel will say it's Hamas and all those supporting Israel will believe it because they want to believe it. Hamas will say it's Israel and all those supporting Hamas will believe it because they want to believe it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: Doesn't matter. Israel will say it's Hamas and all those supporting Israel will believe it because they want to believe it. Hamas will say it's Israel and all those supporting Hamas will believe it because they want to believe it. Don’t conflate supporting Palestine with supporting Hamas, please. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Manhattan Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Surely even the biggest w****r in the history of marketing (and that's a fairly crowded field) can't think it's a good idea to parade worried and/or grieving families before the press in front of a bunch of logos for the Tel Aviv Carlton. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, orfc said: Al Jazeera the qatari state funded TV station clearing the qatari state funded Hamas? Sounds legit Meanwhile... You frame your every comment on here as a gotcha on the person you're replying to. You need to realise that you're far, far too stupid to do that. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Freedom Farter said: As interesting as that is (and Al Jazeera and the BBC are both good at doing this sort of thing), it doesn't rule out a misfire or a rocket exploding on the "launchpad" so to speak as that wouldn't show up as a rocket launched from Gaza. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: Doesn't matter. Israel will say it's Hamas and all those supporting Israel will believe it because they want to believe it. Hamas will say it's Israel and all those supporting Hamas will believe it because they want to believe it. I think so and we'll only find out definitively months after the current war has ended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Foot Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 6 hours ago, welshbairn said: Had a quick look back when I read your post and found this. I was no fan of Ron Paul but he's spot on here. From 2009 I think. To be fair, this is the same man who used to write anti-Semitic pamphlets and posted such gems as this: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 7 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: I mistakenly selected back to the first page of this thread instead of 'previous' and on reading a lot of the posts there from 2008 it's obvious that f**k all has changed, never mind for the better, in the 15 years since. It's a deadly and depressing situation but what gives me a glimmer of hope is that at my age I've seen seemingly intractable issues eventually alter - Vietnam, the Berlin Wall and (relative) peace in Northern Ireland being the obvious examples. For the Israel/Palestine war to end though, a starting point must be an end to the unqualified support of Israel routinely parroted by the US, the UK and others, and the eventual establishment of a just settlement in the region. It would be interesting to gauge Israeli public opinion on that, as opposed to their Government's narrative. And all of it accompanied by the laying down of Palestinian arms. If only it were that easy. I recall talking to some Americans who say that American Jews are often embarrassed by what Israel does but it is Evangelical Christians who support Israel more because some book says the Jews should be there and if some "not-chosen ones" come to harm then that is unfortunate but maybe part of the master plan. The same book has no mention of Vietnam, Berlin or Northern Ireland. If there was any truth in this then it might explain why nobody is rushing to solve the situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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